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Sep 2023
2:41pm, 14 Sep 2023
80,467 posts
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Gobi
The debate in here is nearly as much fun as the Vuelta
I am now less than 100 places from being totally last !!
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Sep 2023
2:49pm, 14 Sep 2023
21,977 posts
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larkim
I'd be with any one of them taking the chance with their legs on any given day, if I'm simply watching competitive sport and ignoring "class" or "cycling norms"
I personally want Kuss to win; ideally win on merit, but happy if the win is actually "gifted" because I like the guy.
But I can entirely understand if JV or PR want to win it and wouldn't disrespect them if that was the choice they made.
But that's partly because I do view it as an individual rather than team sport.
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Sep 2023
3:33pm, 14 Sep 2023
20,694 posts
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Chrisull
It's a team sport tho, without his team Ving would not have a chance of winning. He'd just be attacked all day long and have to shut them all down. You only use 60-70% energy when drafting a team mate on the flat/shallow slopes.
On Zwift if you get dropped by a peloton, it's virtually impossible to get back once they've got 30 seconds ahead of you, if they're travelling at a good pace. And that is meant to be a great simulator of the real physics involved.
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Sep 2023
3:38pm, 14 Sep 2023
42,634 posts
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SPR
Agree an individual wins but they need their team otherwise someone would eventually get away.
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Sep 2023
4:32pm, 14 Sep 2023
42,636 posts
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SPR
So Landa Vs Ayuso the one chance of instigating a GC fight without Jumbo attacking each other.
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Sep 2023
4:38pm, 14 Sep 2023
20,695 posts
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Chrisull
Yep, into nervous zone for Kuss.
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Sep 2023
4:50pm, 14 Sep 2023
21,979 posts
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larkim
It's a team sport tho, without his team Ving would not have a chance of winning. He'd just be attacked all day long and have to shut them all down. You only use 60-70% energy when drafting a team mate on the flat/shallow slopes.
On Zwift if you get dropped by a peloton, it's virtually impossible to get back once they've got 30 seconds ahead of you, if they're travelling at a good pace. And that is meant to be a great simulator of the real physics involved.
But equally, on a climb like yesterday's there's diminishingly small aero benefits from following as it gets steeper. There are psychological supports too, but some riders can get that lift from other riders too (c.f. Landa and Kuss yesterday).
And following *any* rider confers the same aero benefits, its not just following your team.
But yes, I don't disagree that the sport has a very complex relationship between team and individual competition natures.
The domestiques are more like the mechanics and designers in an F1 team - for certain, Hamilton doesn't win if his team build him a crap car, or the pitstop crew change one wheel at a time. But Hamilton is the one who wins the championship. (I'm sure there are plenty of flaws in the analogy).
The reality is that we're discussing this precisely because it is an intriguing situation and one that hasn't really been played out in this format before. We've had Froome distancing Wiggins a few years back ("Fenton!!!") on one stage, and all the intrigue and harmed relationships that that generated. But never have we had one really nice, selfless super domestique in the leaders' jersey in the final week of a GT, earned on merit, with his two nominated team leaders behind him and both potentially hungry for a GT win with no crystal clear diktat from the team clarifying who they are backing to win.
So I'm enjoying the novelty; and I hope Kuss wins.
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Sep 2023
4:57pm, 14 Sep 2023
7,708 posts
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um
I suspect the 'team' (ie whoever really calls the shots) is really saying 'OK, show me who should be the natural team lead' and enjoying it. As long as they still get a full podium?
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Sep 2023
5:09pm, 14 Sep 2023
23,858 posts
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Meglet
One thing is certain, we are all talking about TJV and that will make the sponsors happy!
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Sep 2023
5:40pm, 14 Sep 2023
42,637 posts
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SPR
If Pogacar had a teammate that could have marked Roglic in 2022 or a team to set a hard pace, he might have won that Tour. If Jumbo were weak at the Tour maybe UAE could have done the same but their team was strong enough to set a tempo which means others can't cause problems.
Kuss wouldn't be in the lead without his teammates either making sure the break succeeded.
We already know the natural leaders at Jumbo, it's why people want Kuss to win.
Watching behind so not seen interviews after today yet but today is more what I expected.
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So who won the tour from 1999 to 2005
May 2024
