Pro cycling thread
84 watchers
Sep 2023
9:13am, 14 Sep 2023
20,684 posts
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Chrisull
If it was Formula 1, we wouldn't be having this conversation at all.(Not a good thing really though) But with Kuss's contract is up in 2024... if I was Ineos, surely someone to pinch. It has to have left a sour taste. Kuss mumbled in his interview yesterday, "I'd like to have a shot at it" or words to that effect, and the body language was definitely less positive -a hug for Primoz sure, but Jonas got a tap on the helmet, that's all. He admitted he thought he'd lost red. Landa saved him, and if anything they looked like the team mates after the finish... The problem is Vingegaard really, I'd imagine that Kuss can defend 1.00 over Roglic in this last mountains stage. Wonder where team loyalties lie? Surely if Gesink, Tratnik, Kelderman, Valter and Van Baarle decide how the day is played out. If they want Kuss to win, then letting the break go is surely the best option. If they chase it down, they're operating for Vingegaard. And while they will follow team orders, surely being ordered to work for one against the other is going to chafe? Fascinating end to a race that appeared dead. One books will be written about I'd imagine. |
Sep 2023
9:27am, 14 Sep 2023
42,620 posts
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SPR
With Evenepoel as the main threat, Roglic and Vingegaard on dom duties made even less sense larkim There's no way Vingegaard's ride yesterday helped Kuss. Roglic's gap meant he wasn't a threat to Kuss. |
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Sep 2023
9:31am, 14 Sep 2023
42,621 posts
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SPR
The ex pros would have the same reaction if it was Vingegaard or Roglic in the lead and they were attacking their teammate without a threat from other teams. It's about cycling norms. Sure the way Kuss is adds to it though. Jumbo twitter said Kuss told them to go but that seems like BS given they were saying on interviews after that they didn't hear Kuss. |
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Sep 2023
9:36am, 14 Sep 2023
20,686 posts
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Chrisull
And also larks as for "letting him win", Kuss cycled one of the top 5 times ever up the Angliru yesterday (I know times aren't totally comparative). He drifted out of red on the climb and got back into it without team mate help.
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Sep 2023
9:40am, 14 Sep 2023
42,622 posts
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SPR
Also using the strategy of Kuss wins if he has better legs than opponents against them can't happen. Roglic and Vingegaard aren't doms, if an opponent is stronger, they can follow. The point isn't to back Kuss at all cost.
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Sep 2023
12:02pm, 14 Sep 2023
14,439 posts
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Dave W
Can't see anyone on here saying "back Kuss at all costs" except you. If he's in trouble, and the team are at risk of losing the red jersey overall, then time for a rethink. But if he's doing okay, which he is, and the only people gapping him are his own team mates, which they are, then get a grip, tone it back a bit, and help him win it. Otherwise be forever labelled as shits of the first water. And good luck getting people to ride for you after that. They will, but only because they're "getting paid for it". What they are doing does not engender team spirit, or help morale. Effectively, they are saying "we're the big dogs, you lot can go swivel if you think we're going to lower ourselves to helping you". |
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Sep 2023
12:18pm, 14 Sep 2023
42,623 posts
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SPR
Well given I never said back Kuss at all costs, you've not read correctly. Larkim wrote The problem TJV have is that on the one hand they win themselves public relations points by letting Kuss win - we all love an underdog story, and Kuss seems a genuinely nice guy. But if they come out and say that, does that risk others being able to use that strategy against them (if they get it right)? And would it smack of complacency? As I said above, this isn't possible unless they back Kuss at all cost |
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Sep 2023
12:19pm, 14 Sep 2023
20,688 posts
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Chrisull
Breakaway has gone clear, 1.30 and counting...
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Sep 2023
12:21pm, 14 Sep 2023
21,975 posts
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larkim
I think during the Tour I asked why Kuss wasn't ever considered a GC threat and the answer came back that he wasn't really interested in that. I've no doubt that he's got the climbing talent to win, with the right support around him. And yes, his time yesterday was excellent by any objective measure. He also showed some grit when Landa came up to be able to follow him, he should get a lot of credit for that - there was definitely an easy option there to have given up. I just don't see how the "cycling norms" perspective of "don't attack the leader" can then marry up with the concept of JV and PR not being doms for SK. They are either riding in support of him because he has the red jersey and that's "just the way its done" (and are therefore doms) or they are allowed to attack him and not ride in support of him (unless they are simply attacking only as a result of defending the jersey for the team by covering off another team's rider's attack. The "cycling norms" attitude surely has to put JV and PR in position as doms? |
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Sep 2023
12:23pm, 14 Sep 2023
14,445 posts
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Dave W
You literally said it in the post before mine, and I quote "back Kuss at all cost." Unquote. So to summarize for Primoz and Jonas, back Kuss if it doesn't lose you the red jersey, and don't be arseholes about it. There. Hope they're reading this 
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