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Sep 2023
4:49pm, 13 Sep 2023
42,612 posts
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SPR
It's not sounding good. I'm disappointed really and guess I was wrong. Also seems the team are on board with it as well. There's no reason for Kuss not to win the race now.
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Sep 2023
7:45pm, 13 Sep 2023
21,970 posts
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larkim
Well, glad I dipped out of forums and watched it "as live".
Surprised they took the gap as big as they did. Definitely looked like they had no hesitation of doing as much as they could and if that resulted in Kuss out of red then so be it.
However, it did look like there was no challenge for the win between PR and JV, so JV didn't maximise his position and PR gets the palmares for a win on Angliru.
One thing is for certain, they are not riding to protect Kuss one iota. Unless they have a fabulously precise plan to let him win by a tiny margin.
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Sep 2023
8:47pm, 13 Sep 2023
42,613 posts
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SPR
It was really odd. If Roglic was riding to win stage and for GC then towing Vingegaard made no sense and he was towing him as he didn't look round for help once (he was doing the same while Kuss was on as well). If Roglic was just going for the stage, then Vingegaard could have let him go (like they let him go yesterday) and stayed with Kuss. The fact he stayed with Roglic was like he was trying to get towed into red. In terms of coming round, either Vingegaard didn't have the legs or he does adhere to some norms in that trying to steal a win from a teammate that has done all the work to that point would be a no no.
The interviews after were even more odd. I'm almost expecting attacks tomorrow now.
Something I've heard but not had confirmed in print (and I think Orla alluded to this today) was that the pre stage plan for yesterday was for Roglic to go for the stage but Vingegaard radioed in mid-stage 'to ask to be allowed' to attack. I guess the question is whether it was an ask or tell. If it was a tell, then this may be when everything fell apart in terms of the cohesion.
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Sep 2023
8:56pm, 13 Sep 2023
42,614 posts
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SPR
Top three doesn't seem under threat for Jumbo so I guess a see who's best plan doesn't cost them as long as they don't go about it in a silly way. It still feels wrong though given this might be the one and only chance for Kuss unless the plan is for both Roglic and Vingegaard to ride the Tour next year and Kuss to be the GC leader at the Giro with their sprinter also on-board.
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Sep 2023
9:01pm, 13 Sep 2023
14,415 posts
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Dave W
Kuss could still win this but it would need the other two to park their egos and help him if necessary.
Unless he said on the radio that he thought his legs had gone then the other two trying to distance him was poor. He's turned himself inside out for both those f@@**rs numerous times. Show him the same respect and you'll do yourselves a big favour. Otherwise be forever labelled as selfish shitbags.
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Sep 2023
9:10pm, 13 Sep 2023
42,615 posts
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SPR
They don't need to help him as I've said all along. Simply not attacking is all that's needed (and TBH if others are stronger (they aren't) then they're within their right to mark them and secure their positions). One of the reasons Roglic probably rode tempo on the front today is riding on front isn't more costly (or much more here).
Kuss was doing his job when he helped them TBF but that doesn't mean they shouldn't appreciate it.
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Sep 2023
9:12pm, 13 Sep 2023
42,616 posts
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SPR
TBH I think management need to be stronger but it's probably pretty hard to say no to Vingegaard and Roglic who would likely have their pick of teams if they wanted to leave. Kuss would as well, but as a dom unfortunately.
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Sep 2023
9:20pm, 13 Sep 2023
14,416 posts
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Dave W
Semantics. If they hadn't attacked and rode away from him today they would have been helping him.
We'll have to wait and see what happens next. But I do know they're not doing themselves any favours at the moment. When all three ex-rider pundits on the breakaway are effectively calling them assholes then it's not a good PR coup for the team or the sponsors.
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Sep 2023
9:37pm, 13 Sep 2023
21,971 posts
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larkim
Lots of chatter that the way the team has handled this has backfired in terms of the cycling fans, especially in the US.
Obvs I'm not surprised at all. I don't really buy into the etiquette of the peloton, and this sort of scenario is uncharted territory so it's up to TJV and their riders to make the rules up.
I'd love Kuss to win in my heart, but I can't fault either of the other two for wanting the win either given their seasons so far. And Vingegaard especially, if he wins this he is "on a hat trick". He may never get that chance again in his career.
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Sep 2023
9:40pm, 13 Sep 2023
42,617 posts
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SPR
Well given people have suggested that they should do dom duties, we have to be clear about what help means.
We'll probably get full blooded attacks tomorrow once the three are together 🤣
I'm still thinking that Vingegaard was the main issue given he used his margin to win yesterday. Roglic still has a gap to Kuss where him going on his own would have been no issue and Vingegaard knew straight away as well. The only reason for him to follow was to gain on Kuss really.
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So who won the tour from 1999 to 2005
May 2024