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Politics

13 lurkers | 216 watchers
paulcook
paulcook
Nov 2024
2:14pm, 29 Nov 2024
7,056 posts
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paulcook
I found Figure 1 on this page intriguing:

economicsobservatory.com

Especially in relation to both the low percentage the UK appears to accept, but secondly the difference in the graph to Thornton Runner's post, given that this chart stops at 2020, the exact time TR's graph shows a dramatic spike. Wonder what happened in 2020 to change that?!
Chrisull
Chrisull
Nov 2024
2:38pm, 29 Nov 2024
22,462 posts
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Chrisull
Assisted Dying bill passes its second reading by 55 votes. Hmm my thoughts on this are as conflicted as the mps. Just fear it being in this country the worst of both worlds, lack of palliative care, and the vulnerable pressured/co-erced into it.
rf_fozzy
rf_fozzy
Nov 2024
2:50pm, 29 Nov 2024
23,433 posts
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rf_fozzy
I believe that's #2 of the list of logical fallacies
Chrisull
Chrisull
Nov 2024
2:53pm, 29 Nov 2024
22,463 posts
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Chrisull
I didn't say I was one way or the other, I said I was as conflicted as the mps vote was.

Canada looms large and the abhorrent mess they've made of it.
rf_fozzy
rf_fozzy
Nov 2024
2:54pm, 29 Nov 2024
23,434 posts
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rf_fozzy
To be fair I've heard it a lot from opponents of the assisted dying bill. And even used the words "start of a slippery slope"

There are safeguards. In particular having 2 medical doctors and a judge I believe sign off.

And I suspect these will be strengthen and interrogated in the next phases of the bill before it becomes law.

And yes, palliative care needs adressing too. But that's not an argument for not also allowing this.

If we live in a free country, then we also must accept that it's OK for some to choose to die when given a terminal diagnosis and in pain.
Chrisull
Chrisull
Nov 2024
2:59pm, 29 Nov 2024
22,464 posts
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Chrisull
There's no argument with your last line.

Even with safeguards and no coercion, a person might feel obliged to seek it as an option to avoid becoming a burden. I noted Kim Ledbetter said that this was a valid option to seek an assisted death, and I'm uncomfortable specifically with that particular circumstance.
rf_fozzy
rf_fozzy
Nov 2024
3:01pm, 29 Nov 2024
23,435 posts
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rf_fozzy
And that is why there is a judge and two medical doctors who get to weigh in.
DaveG
DaveG
Nov 2024
3:30pm, 29 Nov 2024
510 posts
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DaveG
I think there are other factors which need to be explored around assisted dying. For instance, there's the emotive issue of whether should sell their homes to pay for nursing home fees. It's plausible some people would rather die now and leave their children an inheritance than die in a couple of years when that inheritance has been spent.

I don't think that's a reason for opposing assisted dying. But there will be lots of unintended consequences like that which need thinking through. But today's vote wasn't about deciding all the ins and outs of how it will work, it was about dedicating parliamentary time to working out those issues. There will be lots of things which deserve detailed thought now which hasn't previously. So hopefully both the legal safeguards and the unintentional possibilities can be thought through a lot more now.
TROSaracen
TROSaracen
Nov 2024
3:52pm, 29 Nov 2024
28,503 posts
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TROSaracen
All getting a bit murkier with Haigh - now looking like she was pushed by McSweeney for not declaring the conviction when accepting the cabinet role which is a breach of ministerial code (according to the Granuid).

Sounds like we're well shot, definite lack of integrity/judgement (or, in plain English, a serial liar).
Dave W
Dave W
Nov 2024
4:09pm, 29 Nov 2024
24,136 posts
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Dave W
She’ll soon be in the Tory party. They like that sort of thing in their MP’s. And in their PM’s.

About This Thread

Maintained by Chrisull
Name-calling will be called out, and Ad hominem will be frowned upon. :-) And whatabout-ery sits somewhere above responding to tone and below contradiction.

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