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30 Nov
1:49pm, 30 Nov 2024
11,866 posts
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Fields
Starmer’s Labour Party has shown its racism in how it has responded to genocide in Gaza, the treatment of BAME MPs, his cabinet not really reflecting Britain, his remarks on immigration etc
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30 Nov
2:08pm, 30 Nov 2024
11,867 posts
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Fields
McSweeney seems to be the new Dominic Cummings. Starmer just a vessel
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30 Nov
2:14pm, 30 Nov 2024
3,888 posts
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GeneHunt59
Haven't read Starmer's comments on immigration, but from comments on here it seems he said there are too many immigrants working in the NHS - did I read that right? I'm hoping he meant we rely to heavily on immigrants to staff the NHS and need to look at ways of filling more roles from within. Good luck with that. I can't see that ever being achievable, certainly not in significant numbers. I think Labour's inability to deal with immigration to an acceptable (nothing they do or try to do can ever be enough) level will be their downfall and don't see them winning the next election. Rather worrying that I don't see the public rushing to vote the Tories back in, which would normally be great, but it just means the likes of Reform will have more and more influence. Worrying times ahead. Immigration is a sensitive subject. Is everyone who opposes unlimited immigration for example a racist?
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30 Nov
2:23pm, 30 Nov 2024
46,776 posts
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SPR
The comments were from 2022 and that's what he said at the time and there's no reason to believe he's changed his mind.
We don't unlimited immigration though do we? We're essentially at a point where the political parties are essentially saying immigration is a bad thing and something must be done. Which is how we end up with a comment where Starmer says there's too immigrants in the NHS without the acknowledgement that the only short to medium term fix is likely more immigration. The interviewer pointed out that in Scotland specifically where the comments were made, more training places wasn't the problem as they were struggling to fill those.
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30 Nov
2:36pm, 30 Nov 2024
11,868 posts
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Fields
Bringing in already trained staff from overseas does have negative consequences. There’s a skills export from the origin country (often a developing nation) and it deskills the host population. It’s another echo of colonialism.
Employers should be investing in training staff not buying in expertise.
With all that said, Starmer has been deeply offensive to many who work and use the NHS. A man who has bigoted views, or at least is willing to say bigoted things if he thinks it expedient, and also zero political instinct.
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30 Nov
2:51pm, 30 Nov 2024
22,471 posts
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Chrisull
Starmer just a vessel
I think this has been it all along. He did what he was needed under Corbyn, did what he needed post Corbyn to gain some of the post Corbyn votes, now he does what he's told. He wasn't some sort of Machiavellian maestro, deceiving the poor helpless Tiny Tim Cratchits of socialism. The Labour party staff and machinery itself has always been to the right, as the Forde report showed. McSweeney has been running the show ruthlessly for a while, but he's not the only one. As with the Democrats in America who seemed incapable of tacking at all to the left, it's the party machinery itself you have to worry about. So there instead embracing the likes of Liz Cheney they could have doffed their cap at least to Sanders style populism. I see one of teh news networks went around interviewing those who voted for Trump and firebrand leftwinger Alexandra Ocasio Cortez as their congress woman. And really their reasons weren't that hard to understand.
They could have also been more pro-Gaza. I don't think electorally it would have made a difference, although having said that in 1968 Hubert Humphrey was running massively behind Nixon, denounced Vietnam thus betraying LBJ and the democratic party and almost caught Nixon (closer than Harris, only losing out in Illinois) at the death.
But yes as fozzy points out, talking about immigration only raises it more as an issue in people's minds. Before 2015 only 10% of the population gave a damn (according to FT surveys), and then along came Cameron to make the dumbest manoeuvre in the entirety of British politics. I mean I'm not sure the rise of populism wasn't coming anyway, but he didn't have to hold open the door for it.
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30 Nov
3:21pm, 30 Nov 2024
11,869 posts
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Fields
Honestly immigration is not even in my top 10 of issues
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30 Nov
3:42pm, 30 Nov 2024
10,011 posts
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simbil
Starmer is pragmatic and far from amazing I think rather than a vessel.
He wants a country not led by the hard right and took a look at what the population wants and drew a ring around what he could stretch to and it was enough to get a not hard right party into power. The compromise will of course please few as we seem to be living in a post-consensus world of winners and losers rather than coming together over what matters and accepting we don't get everything we want in a compromise.
The alternative is being the kind of opposition that makes no compromises but has to influence from the side-lines instead of the executive.
Also as GeneHunt points out, immigration is a bit of a trigger issue and perhaps doesn't get the discussion it deserves from both 'sides' of the argument.
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30 Nov
4:04pm, 30 Nov 2024
11,870 posts
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Fields
This is what I think the causes of immigration out of desperation, which is what those in small boats are, desperate.
Climate change
Wars caused or exacerbated by Western liberal interventionism
Historic inequality due to western colonialism
Starmer and the other western leaders are doing little or nothing about these issues though
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30 Nov
4:09pm, 30 Nov 2024
7,058 posts
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paulcook
100% agree with that post.
I was trying to find some quantitative evidence yesterday when I made another of my posts. Though the reports didn’t back it up.
I still agree with your synopsis though clearly some of it is much more in depth. Mainly economics etc.
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Fantasy General Election
Jul 2024