Politics

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SPR
SPR
30 Nov
4:17pm, 30 Nov 2024
46,777 posts
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SPR
If they were going to have a proper conversation then when they were basically guaranteed to win an election was the time to do it.

There isn't really a both sides in the mainstream is there? If the Tories could have cut immigration without the country falling apart, they'd have done so. The focus on small boats etc is precisely because the immigration that contributes most to the numbers is seen as necessary.
paulcook
paulcook
30 Nov
4:19pm, 30 Nov 2024
7,059 posts
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paulcook
SPR wrote:There isn't really a both sides in the mainstream is there?


No. Not at all.

And even if they’re not controlling the conversation, they’re controlling the topics of conversation.
Chrisull
Chrisull
30 Nov
4:25pm, 30 Nov 2024
22,474 posts
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Chrisull
And immigration in small boats only increased dramatically because of Tories shutting down safe routes and taking forever to process claims. As for immigration numbers overall, there were the post Brexit changes such as removing the annual cap on skilled workers, that have led to the rise.

"The Office for National Statistics (ONS) estimates that net migration to the UK peaked at 764,000 in 2022. In 2015, net migration to the UK was less than double this amount, totalling 333,000."

brunel.ac.uk

It's the two facedness of the policies of the last decade that really grate.
simbil
simbil
30 Nov
4:37pm, 30 Nov 2024
10,012 posts
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simbil
Would Labour have won if they were less socially conservative (or dishonest about immigration if that's how it is seen)? I don't think that is a given.
SPR
SPR
30 Nov
4:55pm, 30 Nov 2024
46,778 posts
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SPR
If they'd said we need immigration currently and they are keeping the NHS going and without them waiting lists would be longer etc. We're going to increase training places. Do you really think they'd have lost?

I don't believe they were losing to the Tories unless they came up with with that mad and I don't think pointing out some benefits of immigration is that. They weren't losing to the Tories so were Reform going to win? I honestly don't think the NHS comments moved the needle as that wasn't the immigration everyone was focusing on anyway. I suppose you could say that was Starmer acknowledging a reduction in numbers has to come from somewhere.

In an alternative reality where they hadn't promised to cancel Rwanda, would we believe that they needed to keep it to win the election.
simbil
simbil
30 Nov
5:24pm, 30 Nov 2024
10,013 posts
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simbil
Whether they could have squeaked a win on a more socially progressive ticket, I'd guess maybe. But overall they wanted a simple message for workers who are ok with brexit and don't much like immigration. Without that, some votes would be heading Tory whilst the more extreme votes were probably already lost to Reform regardless.
Fields
Fields
30 Nov
5:59pm, 30 Nov 2024
11,872 posts
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Fields
Starmers vocab is chasing voters who want zero immigration, who joke about sinking small boats or machine gunning people as they land on a beach

It is fruitless though for this type of person will always see Labour as not to be trusted on this topic as too left wing even if Starmer was personally piloting deportation flights to Rwanda
SPR
SPR
30 Nov
6:14pm, 30 Nov 2024
46,779 posts
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SPR
Well that message is going to run into reality sooner or later and then maybe Reform will have their day.
SPR
SPR
30 Nov
6:26pm, 30 Nov 2024
46,780 posts
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SPR
Thinking about all the different reasons and ways people come to live in the UK, in total how many migrants do you think come to Britain illegally compared to legally?

yougov.co.uk

Sure the result of this poll isn't too surprising given the media on immigration.
jda
jda
30 Nov
6:40pm, 30 Nov 2024
18,193 posts
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jda
No one could possibly predict that chasing the remnants of the pro-Brexit vote as it steadily dies out might end badly for parties that lash themselves to that particular mast.

About This Thread

Maintained by Chrisull
Name-calling will be called out, and Ad hominem will be frowned upon. :-) And whatabout-ery sits somewhere above responding to tone and below contradiction.

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