13 Sep
12:21pm, 13 Sep 2024
23,045 posts
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rf_fozzy
Joe1970 wrote: I'm not sure it matters much who the American president is. I mean, they clearly haven't had a functioning brain in charge for the last few months / maybe years (we're all quite sure Biden is not competent to run for 4 more years but in what way does that mean he's competent now?) and everything still appears to run as normal. And changing to Trump or Harris won't make a difference to the forever wars, the choice is whether you like your genocide with a rainbow flag or a MAGA hat. This is utter nonsense. |
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13 Sep
12:24pm, 13 Sep 2024
23,046 posts
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rf_fozzy
I see the purity over pragmatic police have been posting this morning. Jeez. Did Obama get everything right? Nope. Was he pretty good US president. Yes. Blaming him for actions that the far -right republicans took in reactionary countermeasures is stupid. |
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13 Sep
12:26pm, 13 Sep 2024
23,047 posts
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rf_fozzy
When people talk about "forever wars," I want to go point them in the direction of a history book And given the far left also supported Brexit, which has been an inherently destabilising movement, then you can just shut up and go away. Permanently. |
13 Sep
12:31pm, 13 Sep 2024
22,123 posts
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Chrisull
It's not a case of purity. Was he better than Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush and Trump. Yes. (Although I believe Carter's rep is being rehabilitated). Was he better than Biden or Clinton? I'd argue not. Was he a more important president than either - yes? But did he even achieve Blair's things on par with minimum wage/Surestart/social chapter signing up. No he didn't. |
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13 Sep
12:33pm, 13 Sep 2024
22,124 posts
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Chrisull
(and if you think the social chapter is nothing look at maternity/paternity leave, average working hours/holidays etc compared to the UK. They are dreadful - I currently have relatives there with first hand experience)
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13 Sep
12:34pm, 13 Sep 2024
46,100 posts
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SPR
simbil wrote: Wasn't TRO's point just that Obama was an amazing communicator? Seems uncontroversial and self evident to me That's not what the post said though, it seemed to lump the others in with Trump as generally rubbish. This isn't just referring to communication: "Hilary lost to Trump, and you can’t get more inept, uninspiring and incompetent as a politician than that." |
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13 Sep
12:36pm, 13 Sep 2024
22,125 posts
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Chrisull
And I'd argue I'm noticeably more pragmatic than many views expressed here. I believe in getting things done, even if it entails radical compromise. But when your compromise makes things worse for SOME of those your are aiming to help, that's a compromise too many.
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13 Sep
12:40pm, 13 Sep 2024
22,126 posts
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Chrisull
Also it is not purity to call out Labour for not even assessing the impact of the winter fuel payments. theguardian.com I believe there's an excellent case for means testing them. But what is happening now is a public relations disaster: theguardian.com |
13 Sep
12:49pm, 13 Sep 2024
6,430 posts
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paulcook
Chrisull wrote: But what is happening now is a public relations disaster: theguardian.com And that for me is the crux of politics. You can do all the good in the world (or bad for that matter), prove everything and dot every i, cross every t, have the stats to prove it either way, but most voters don't see that. They see the headlines and go to the ballot box with that perception, and made for them. I mean according to CBS polls, 91% said Trump won this week's debate. But CBS is a loaded poll. It's PR in the middle ground / swaying voters you need. |
13 Sep
12:52pm, 13 Sep 2024
9,911 posts
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simbil
@SPR Lumping them in with Trump seems accurate - they are all division 2 communicators and that was the central point I thought - none of them are in the same league as Obama? And about communication, could you be a bit more courteous to other posters Fozzy and perhaps correlate your thoughts into a single post rather than several in a row? Ta. And for fairness, Chrisull too doubling up and a few other regulars do this too. Some social media platforms have a "slow mode" to try and get people to reflect a bit before dropping a dozen posts. Here it is a courtesy to other readers. |
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