14 Aug
7:17pm, 14 Aug 2024
22,895 posts
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rf_fozzy
paulcook wrote: Unless I’m being stupid fozzy show me the far left riots that have caused millions of pounds of damage and tried to burn people in their homes. Well...there were riots associated with the protests in Portland in 2020. Similarly the Tottenham riots in 2011. Those both at least theoretically associated with causes broadly supported by those on the left. Those of course differ from the more recent far right riots in that there the protest was on the whole peaceful, but there was rioting around the edges, rather than being the main feature as the other week. My point was that rioting on the far right or far left should be condemned in the same fashion. Peaceful protest is to be encouraged, but not rioting. And bad faith arguments, as has been seen on this very thread can come from all parts of the political spectrum. |
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14 Aug
8:11pm, 14 Aug 2024
22,896 posts
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rf_fozzy
Cheg wrote: Sometimes there is no engaging. They’re just thick, racist, wrong uns. There is no reasoning, no educating them, no trying to understand their grievances. Btw, I somewhat disagree with this too. Although I can empathise with the frustration and it might seem a futility, I do think there does need to be some form of engagement, but not in the form of a public debate over policy. The solution as I feel is important in many circumstances is education, education, education. We must never stop teaching. How and what resonates with the people some might describe in the above terms is the tricky part. Especially in overcoming the visceral nature of some of the emotional aspects. But there are many examples from the criminal justice system where rehabilitation has worked and we can point to examples from northern Ireland where we can find former participants from both nationalist and unionist paramilitary backgrounds where they have changed for to a peaceful stance. For examples on this, I strongly recommend the BBC documentary 'Once upon a time in Northern Ireland' which is just outstanding. |
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14 Aug
8:15pm, 14 Aug 2024
22,897 posts
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rf_fozzy
Also: We must never stop learning.
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14 Aug
9:01pm, 14 Aug 2024
4,389 posts
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Cheg
Nah. Some people are just lost.
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14 Aug
9:14pm, 14 Aug 2024
22,898 posts
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rf_fozzy
Cheg wrote: Nah. Some people are just lost. I empathise with where you are coming from, but to me this is simply admitting defeat on your argument I may be naive, but I do believe that if your argument is right and if you have the evidence on your side, then you can change any mind. The trick and the difficulty is finding the right way to do it. |
14 Aug
9:18pm, 14 Aug 2024
27,218 posts
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Bazoaxe
Good luck with that fozzy. Admirable aim, but some people are just not open to that approach.
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14 Aug
9:20pm, 14 Aug 2024
22,899 posts
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rf_fozzy
Of course, it does mean when I think I am right, it does mean I can be persistent and very annoying
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14 Aug
9:22pm, 14 Aug 2024
22,900 posts
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rf_fozzy
Bazoaxe wrote: Good luck with that fozzy. Admirable aim, but some people are just not open to that approach. It's certainly not straightforward. And we should be pragmatic and never let perfection stand in the way of being good. |
14 Aug
11:40pm, 14 Aug 2024
20,218 posts
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Gooner
As an ex prison officer who spent some time in the offender management department, sadly, I think you are showing an optimistic view on what in some cases, is as close to impossible a cause as the human condition allows. Through bitter experience, I tend to side with Cheg's point of view, though, I wish it weren't the case. |
15 Aug
1:33pm, 15 Aug 2024
50,709 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
But I don't think government can wash their hands of it? It impacts society - unhappiness and resentment, even if not always spilling over into over racism and violence? That's a cost. So government should address it. Debate? Err, prob not! But some form of education, information or other intervention in those areas where there are the strongest divides. Investment in shared community facilities and any and all community initiatives on the ground that bring people together - sports, recreation, dance, art, worship anything that people do together, across different ethnic groups? I think it's very negative and defeatist to say we shouldn't do anything?  G
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