7 Jul
11:04am, 7 Jul 2024
32,727 posts
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Johnny Blaze
On the face of it, Trump is stubbornly hanging in there and disproving my theory, but on one level he is confirming it: he is quite consumed by indictments, convictions, felonies and assorted legal jeopardies - all as a result of his entitled narcissism and psychopathy, so on one level he is already in Hell. A humble man would have accepted the election result in 2020 and retired with dignity. He is not that. History will condemn him for his behaviour. At 78 a normal man would be enjoying what remains of his life with reflection, leisure and grandchildren but he is in a daily hell of his own making. |
7 Jul
11:08am, 7 Jul 2024
18,910 posts
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JamieKai *chameleon*
You mean Future President Trump? Whilst Biden clings on, that becomes more certain.
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7 Jul
11:12am, 7 Jul 2024
32,728 posts
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Johnny Blaze
jda wrote: Remember Johnson was undone by the MPs who had never much liked him. Not the party members. And Farage doesn't have any mechanism for removal, being majority shareholder in his company. Of course "his undoing will come" is basically tautologous, all political careers end somehow. One might as well say "the sun will rise" or more frequently "the rain will fall". Tell me something I don't know. Ah, those heady days when you used to sarcastically mock me for my predictions of Johnson’s early demise. Really missing the point there… you are pointing out what inevitably happens to everyone. I am pointing out the premature end which is hastened by pride and arrogance - which impair judgement and dull wisdom. Character shapes our ends, however much we may think it doesn’t. |
7 Jul
11:34am, 7 Jul 2024
9,889 posts
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simbil
Instead of looking at the leaders, you can also view it from the other side and look at the people who enable the leaders - there is both enough public following and people who will fund them. So it doesn't really matter that Farage will flake out at some point as he'll have a successor a la Pen, or the whole thing will start over with some of the same characters and financial backing but all importantly, with that public following. Very much the same with Trump - those discontented socially conservative/angry voters are there for the taking. Same with independence movements, many of those people still feel the same way. Perhaps the only way out of all this is to fix the systems and make the government work for them instead of leaving them behind. |
7 Jul
12:26pm, 7 Jul 2024
50,404 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
jda wrote: Yes of course a significant advantage of a proportional system is that you can vote for who you want to win. Given that labour’s strategy was mainly “you have to vote for us if you want the tories out” does anyone seriously doubt their vote share would drop under such a system? Again, don't agree with that. Under PR I might have voted for Labour, but under FPTP II didn't need to as Labour were going to get the win in my constituency so could protest vote for others. As did my mum in her constituency. PR just means everyone can express their opinion and every opinion is represented. I don't know what the non FPTP voting split would be in the UK, and I don't believe any pollsters do either. How can they ask "what would you vote under PR" when most people don't even understand PR (or FPTP for that matter). Had a discussion yesterday with sis and mum. Sis (graduate, mental health professional) didn't understand how Labour get highrt seat proportion than vote proportion. And mum was struggling with SNP still being government in Scotland when they lost all those votes! And fozzy, wish you wouldn't lecture as if we or all electorate don't understand what you do. People know they're not voting for Sunak or Starmer or Davey. But they know they are voting for a person , with a party name beside it, from whom one of those leaders will be the PM. Am I the public school boy who is decent? If so, I'm a poor reprentative of public school system - scholarship kid, single mother in a council house, second hand blazer, drinking problem and disruptive oik etc !  G
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7 Jul
12:41pm, 7 Jul 2024
1,093 posts
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Fenners-Reborn
Can somebody enlighten me with regards to how the voting actually works for PR. There is something in the back of my mind that you have second preferences? Or is that my senile mind playing tricks?
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7 Jul
12:43pm, 7 Jul 2024
1,094 posts
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Fenners-Reborn
Blimey I've just looked what Germany do! It seems they two votes: [1] a local FPTP [2] a party PR |
7 Jul
12:48pm, 7 Jul 2024
9,090 posts
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Pothunter
Fenners-Reborn wrote: Can somebody enlighten me with regards to how the voting actually works for PR. There is something in the back of my mind that you have second preferences? Or is that my senile mind playing tricks? Depends on the flavour of PR - plenty of permutations available! |
7 Jul
1:00pm, 7 Jul 2024
28,411 posts
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richmac
The Germans over thinking things ? surely not
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7 Jul
1:08pm, 7 Jul 2024
17,419 posts
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jda
So what's "premature" in this context JB? Of course Farage will go, eventually. Will it be 3 days, 3 months, 3 years, 3 decades including a long stint as PM? Just saying it will all end in tears is basically meaningless. Of course it will end in tears, the interesting question is when that will be. If I was mocking you, I'd probably say you'd predicted 19 of the last 2 political defenestrations. I'm genuinely interested in what you are predicting, if anything. |
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