Oct 2023
10:47pm, 20 Oct 2023
10,190 posts
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Fields
You do know there’s a difference between being a union rep and being an employee of a union?
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Oct 2023
10:56pm, 20 Oct 2023
23,909 posts
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richmac
I do, I've met both and found one to be mainly bell ends
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Oct 2023
11:36pm, 20 Oct 2023
20,793 posts
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Chrisull
It's over for the Tories, it's unfixable, it's endemic. Starmer is the Geoffrey Boycott of politics studiously defending every wide full toss. However STILL the Tories do not understand why they lost. Their whatsapp groups indicate their inability to comprehend how to fix it. They think it's about stopping the boats. It's about the cost of living and the NHS.
Yes of course Labour can lose it, there could be a video of Starmer boogie-ing down with Jimmy Saville and saying "don't worry Jim, I've got your back". But in reality it's highly unlikely. I understand the worries and fears (hey 2015?), but like Trump's loss in 2020 it was carefully scripted and choreographed before it happened.
I can understand why people think the Tories might still get back in, but don't worry. It's as predictable as the New Zealand taking apart Argentina in the rugby or England losing on penalties in the football. Boris Johnson lost it for them around 2021 and it was unfixable then as it was now. People get bored and want change. Even if they hung Parliament , they'd still be out. Even a govt as initially popular as Blair's had its Waterloo. My main worry would be 2028, as we all know Starmer even with sensible governance will struggle to fix this.
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Oct 2023
6:39am, 21 Oct 2023
31,117 posts
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Johnny Blaze
Yes. If the Tory gene pool is reduced to a rump of 130 mainly rightwing nutjobs, narcissists and halfwits the infighting will be something to behold. Labour chances of winning will be greatly improved if the Tories elect a series of numpties like Braverman. Their "talent" pool could be very shallow after the next election and that's all good news for Labour as long as they don't fumble it.
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Oct 2023
6:57am, 21 Oct 2023
14,694 posts
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Dave W
And then they should go for PR so the Tories never, ever get in again. Ever.
They have ruined this country for the majority of people over these last 13 years. They should never be trusted with government again.
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Oct 2023
7:09am, 21 Oct 2023
4,083 posts
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Cheg
If Scotland become independent what is the FPTP outlook for England and Wales? Shouldn’t Labour push for PR as a protection against that possibility, and their future relevance?
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Oct 2023
7:22am, 21 Oct 2023
14,695 posts
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Dave W
Can't see Scottish independence for a while yet. I think that the desire is on the wane a little, and will be even less without the Tories in in London. Plus the SNP have their own travails at the moment, and are a lot less popular than they were. So not really an issue at the moment, IMO. But they should go for PR anyway, as it's the fairest. And the added bonus is it would decimate the Tories who only ever win because of FPTP.
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Oct 2023
7:50am, 21 Oct 2023
23,911 posts
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richmac
Flicking through the front page round up on the BBC website, 2 things caught my eye both Tory backing papers
Both were about Tory ideas to get voters back, first reduce stamp duty, second tax cuts for high earners.
They haven't got a clue about most people's lives have they.
What's sad is people who'll never have to worry about stamp duty or high earnings will still vote for them.
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Oct 2023
7:52am, 21 Oct 2023
15,664 posts
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jda
Having set themselves so firmly against it, Labour simply can't go for PR. Labour also has its share of shallow idiots, nothing like the same extent as the tories, but there are a lot of them there. Burgon, Nandy, Stringer...they aren't all great statespeople!
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Oct 2023
7:54am, 21 Oct 2023
4,084 posts
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Cheg
I understand the unlikelihood of independence, but if that is an extinction level event for your party, even at a low probability, you still want to protect yourself from it.
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