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Feb 2020
11:24am, 6 Feb 2020
19,137 posts
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DeeGee
Something about diesel, macca. Nothing whatsoever to do with Brexit 
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Feb 2020
11:39am, 6 Feb 2020
2,577 posts
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J2R
Raemond: "Much as I wish it weren't so, I suspect Starmer (being a chap, and a Sir,m and having a name with a vague ring of empire) might have a better chance of winning back the sorts who've 'loaned' their votes to the tories for now. "
Don't you think being a better candidate might be the clincher here, rather than some attributes over which he has no control? Johnson's success in former Labour heartlands were almost certainly despite his posh Eton background rather than because of it (otherwise pretty well all former Tory leaders would have had the same success). It just shows that background is not the big issue. People perceived (completely wrongly, IMO) that Johnson was the best candidate (basically because he was a 'celebrity'), and were unfazed by the fact that he was a toff.
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Feb 2020
11:46am, 6 Feb 2020
19,138 posts
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DeeGee
Problem is, Labour don't select leaders due to electability. They select them in their own little special interest grouping based on which flavour of left-wingedness their members are most interested in.
The only Labour leader in my lifetime who won a general election came about because they needed a leader in a hurry following the death of John Smith and so the usual drawn-out campaign to the various unions was bypassed in favour of a more direct election. OMOV was a big part of it, as the Unions hadn't yet worked out how to properly wrest back power.
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Feb 2020
11:50am, 6 Feb 2020
2,578 posts
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J2R
DeeGee, I think you're doing Labour an injustice there by saying they don't select leaders due to electability. They do, but in a negative way. If the candidate is perceived as electable, then ergo they must be some kind of impure centrist type who must be stopped in their tracks.
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Feb 2020
11:55am, 6 Feb 2020
9,523 posts
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rf_fozzy
I actually disagree with that. I just think that Labour are very bad (or have to work much harder) to win the press war.
The Tories have natural allies in the press/media that Lab don't have.
So, a lot of Blair being "electable" was down to Campbell (and Malcolm Tucker?).
But also remember the leaders that the Tories elected in that time: Hague, Howard, IDS - none of them were electable either.
Electability is one of those undefinable things that is both personality and time dependent too.
(see Democratic presidential candidates where 'electability' is a major issue - otherwise I feel Elizabeth Warren would be romping home compared to the others - certainly Sanders wouldn't have the same level of support).
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Feb 2020
11:56am, 6 Feb 2020
6,311 posts
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jda
Next time I hear a labour member/supporter say that Blair was the worst leader they've ever had, I'm going to ask them to rank the PMs of the last 30 years in order of preference.
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Feb 2020
12:00pm, 6 Feb 2020
2,579 posts
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J2R
jda, great point!
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Feb 2020
12:02pm, 6 Feb 2020
4,256 posts
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Raemond
No, J2R, I think the idea that of what a 'proper leader' looks like is deeply ingrained in a lot of those swing voters, and being an achingly privileged old etonian wasn't a significant hindrance to Boj at all.
You say if that was a determining factor the red wall would have fallen before now - but I don't buy it. Before now the Labour leaders still had a tendency to come from pretty similar moulds -
Miliband went to state school but Oxford to read PPE
Brown was an academic
Blair to the 'eton of Scotland' than Oxford to read Law
Smith was QC .
Corbyn not really ticking any of the 'looks like a proper leader' boxes beyond being a straight, white, middle aged man, made it all the easier for the right leaning press to run with the (unfortunately, probably accurate) story that he's a career back bencher not really suited to leadership.
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Feb 2020
12:07pm, 6 Feb 2020
4,257 posts
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Raemond
[sorry, that odd gap is because I accidentally deleted a bit I was editing about Brown that said something '(and look how well he did...)'
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Feb 2020
12:17pm, 6 Feb 2020
15,870 posts
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Bazoaxe
Bit of a bombshell in Scotland today with the Finance Minister resigning following inappropriate text messages to a 16 year old. You wonder what goes through peoples heads at times.
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