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Dec 2019
11:28am, 16 Dec 2019
5,991 posts
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jda
Brighouse Boy, "we" can't do anything to make the best of it, apart from a bit of contingency planning for possible outcomes. The tory MPs own this, and can do what they want with it. It won't necessarily stop me (and no doubt many others better informed) pointing out what is shit about their proposed solution (when they start to come up with one) but it's entirely up to them as to what they actually do with that information.
The idea that people should somehow "get behind" an act of great self-harm and just pretend to each other that it's a really good idea is simply bonkers. Should we also "get behind" climate change or road traffic accidents or lung cancer? Or, perhaps a better analogy, the war in Iraq? After all, that was also a dishonestly-pursed act that caused great harm to many.
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Dec 2019
11:32am, 16 Dec 2019
5,992 posts
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jda
Stander, well in that case the remainers did nothing at all until the last-minute refusal to ram through Johnson's deal without scrutiny, as at no point prior to that was there any brexit deal for them to approve. And who's fault was that?
May was appointed PM unopposed, remember, because when the MP ballot got down to the last 2, the leavers' candidate withdrew. It is nonsense to blame the remainers for the inability of the leavers to even put a candidate to the party members for a vote.
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Dec 2019
11:32am, 16 Dec 2019
27,183 posts
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macca 53
.....and isn’t Johnson’s deal a kind of “May minus”, with the addition of a border down the Irish Sea. Why would the ERG support that; a clearly “worse” deal than they rejected under May?
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Dec 2019
11:34am, 16 Dec 2019
5,993 posts
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jda
Only part of the UK is kept in the CU under Johnson's deal, and since the ERG is a little englander movement, they don't care about NI.
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Dec 2019
11:44am, 16 Dec 2019
116 posts
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Stander Claus
How easily, people forget things.
Shall we ignore the numerous court cases brought by those wishing to frustrate Brexit or the amendments made to non Brexit legislation designed to do same, or MP's forcing extensions?
I could go on with more, but it's pointless. Brexit is now happening and my belief still stands that this large majority is the public's "Fuck Off" to everyone of those who ignored the initial referendum vote and tried to overturn it by any means possible.
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Dec 2019
11:51am, 16 Dec 2019
2,457 posts
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J2R
Stander: "The MP's in the House of commons (who were majority Remainers) did everything they possibly could to frustrate Brexit."
This is a myth, part of the rewriting of history I was talking about. The people who scuppered May's deal were the ERG who repeatedly voted against it. MPs overall weren't trying to frustrate Brexit as such, they were trying to prevent crashing out without a deal. That may be what you wanted to happen, but it's a pretty extreme version of Brexit, very different from what was talked about by the Leave side before the ref, and almost certainly not what the vast majority of the 17.4 million Leave voters had in mind.
Also, I'm fed up to the back teeth with hearing this use of 'majority Remainers' as if it's some kind of slur. Of course they were Remainers. Most MPs voted to Remain in the referendum, as it was patently obvious to them that it was the sensible thing to do, it's just that a lot of them chose to keep quiet about it afterwards when they saw which way the wind was blowing. Get any group of reasonably well-educated, reasonably well-informed people together in a room and the majority of them will be Remainers. You may dismiss this as patronising or elitist, but you know what, I don't care about that any more.
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Dec 2019
11:59am, 16 Dec 2019
19,015 posts
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DeeGee
Dominic Raab was responsible for negotiating the deal, then resigned because he thought it wasn't Brexity enough AND voted against it.
Had Conservative Leavers not voted against the Withdrawal Agreement repeatedly, we'd be out.
And then, and then, and then, parliament PASSED the withdrawal agreement, and THE VERY MAN WHO SPEARHEADED THE OFFICIAL LEAVE CAMPAIGN pulled it.
We have not left the EU because Leave do not actually know what they want.
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Dec 2019
12:19pm, 16 Dec 2019
118 posts
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Stander Claus
J2R, at no point have I suggested that Majority Remainers is a slur. MP's were majority Remainers. That is indisputable. But having a majority Remain parliment try and Leave is like (say) having a majority pacifist society try to wage war. It doesn't work.
A lot of remainers in here try and blame the ERG for stopping Brexit. They didn't. They stopped a possible non Brexit - the Irish backstop.
I'd contest that only the intelligent majority support Remain, but will ignore that assertion as yet another example of people in here calling Leavers stupid.
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Dec 2019
12:27pm, 16 Dec 2019
19,016 posts
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DeeGee
You say "non-Brexit", I say "Negotiated temporary concession to expedite the Brexit process".
Backstop in, Brexit done a year ago. Backstop out - we're still waiting for Brexit.
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Dec 2019
12:30pm, 16 Dec 2019
19,017 posts
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DeeGee
And that's just the thing. If we're going to continue to trade with out biggest market, we're going to have to make concessions. If we're going to continue to trade with any important markets, we're going to have to make concessions.
Surely even you, in your belief in the UK as a strong, global, economic powerhouse, can accept that we aren't going to just dictate all the terms.
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Fantasy General Election
Jul 2024
