Dec 2019
12:02pm, 4 Dec 2019
2,415 posts
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J2R
Incidentally, larkim, I would take issue with your suggestion that Corbyn might have been an electoral asset in 2017. Corbyn's only success in that election was not doing as badly as had been predicted. Had anybody else been leading the party then, Labour would have won comfortably (or rather, Theresa May wouldn't have called the election).
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Dec 2019
12:08pm, 4 Dec 2019
1,473 posts
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SailorSteve
Just found an interesting piece on Tory opposition to the establishment of the nhs, on site called ‘westendatwar.’ I haven’t cross-checked the provenance but this rang a bell.... ’.... Bevan conceded these points in order to make the NHS work, but he was not happy with them. In a very famous speech Bevan made this very clear by stating that his Tory opponents were "lower than vermin.” “That is why no amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party that inflicted those bitter experiences on me. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin. They condemned millions of first-class people to semi-starvation. Now the Tories are pouring out money in propaganda of all sorts and are hoping by this organised sustained mass suggestion to eradicate from our minds all memory of what we went through. But, I warn you young men and women, do not listen to what they are saying now. Do not listen to the seductions of Lord Woolton. He is a very good salesman. If you are selling shoddy stuff you have to be a good salesman. But I warn you they have not changed, or if they have they are slightly worse than they were.“ Speech on 3 July 1948 at the Bellevue Hotel, on eve of the entry into force of the National Health Service.’ |
Dec 2019
1:48pm, 4 Dec 2019
33,509 posts
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Merry Christmas & Happy New G(rrr)
I miss : a. proper speeches like that and b. media with space and inclination to print publish it J2R, wasn't there a demonstrable core of new members of Labour party (many young) directly attributed to Corbyn and by extrapolation new Labour voters attributable directly to Corbyn? I agree, a less conflicted and better choreographed Labour party should be walking into Downing Street.  G
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Dec 2019
1:58pm, 4 Dec 2019
2,416 posts
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J2R
HappyG, yes, loads of new young voters were attracted by Corbyn, but these numbers no way offset the number of people who were put off by him.
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Dec 2019
1:58pm, 4 Dec 2019
9,679 posts
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larkim
@J2R I do get that, but I'm looking at it narrowly in terms of the actual election. Whilst May did her best to throw it away, Corbyn got the party machine and activitists out there energising a vote. In the run up to the election, he was perceived in much the same way as he is at the moment, but during the electoral window it did feel like he brought more to the party than in the previous period "just" as leader. You'll get no disagreements from me though that if Labour had a different leader the polls would look very different coming into the election. |
Dec 2019
2:11pm, 4 Dec 2019
15,543 posts
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Chrisull
On other possible leaders, seem plenty including the Tories thought McDonnell the much better candidate: "Fascinating line in this New Statesman piece by @patrickkmaguire: "At the recent Tory party conference, one minister told me that McDonnell was the only Labour politician they feared. 'He could beat Boris. Unlike Corbyn, he’s serious. He could run as the father of the nation – and win.'" " |
Dec 2019
7:14pm, 4 Dec 2019
10,242 posts
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Markymarkmark
Even those in the Land of Plenty are being affected now by Brexit-ness... moneymarketing.co.uk |
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Dec 2019
3:34pm, 5 Dec 2019
15,544 posts
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Chrisull
I'm revising my seats estimate back up. Tory majority between 30 and 50 I'd say now. Possibly more. Some bad news coming in for non-Tories. One Labour remain vote appears to be concentrated in Labour safe seats. Seats such as Wrexham, which they need to keep they are now 15 points behind the Tories. That is catastrophic. Second early registration of voters returns, shows its up in Labour safe seats, but down in Labour marginals... (the one hope was young voters registering and voting Labour). Third word on the street, also from people I know, voters not keen on anyone, but particularly not keen on Corbyn. They've been saying that they need to sack all politicians so they're voting Tory. When it's pointed out the Tories have been in power for nearly 10 years, they literally do not understand. It's kind of like they think Corbyn is somehow in power already. Anyway plus side, get rid of Corbyn, vote in someone like Starmer, and Johnson will be royally screwed in 2024. Minus side, five more years of shittery, especially paragraph 48 that stops the law interfering with Tory dictats, Brexit, idiocy, etc, etc. |
Dec 2019
3:49pm, 5 Dec 2019
738 posts
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Ally-C
The only working class Tory voters I’ve ever met in the West of Scotland, are those connected to Loyalism/Orangeism. Well, they’re the only folk that admit it. Seeing all these working class folk on various news items saying they’ll vote for “Boris” is mind boggling. |
Dec 2019
4:08pm, 5 Dec 2019
29,767 posts
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SPR
It's always something else that will make a difference. Given how he ate a sandwich was a reason not to vote for Ed Miliband, I'm sure there will be reason not to vote for the next person.
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