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Oct 2019
6:49pm, 1 Oct 2019
9,157 posts
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rf_fozzy
Brexit *is* the dead cat for Climate Change.
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Oct 2019
9:09am, 2 Oct 2019
15,301 posts
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Chrisull
Yes that's probably the sad truth. Witness the hysterical gammon reactions to Greta Thurnberg. A 16 year old, and they act like she's an existential threat to them. I fear for their own daughters they way many have acted towards her.
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Oct 2019
9:16am, 2 Oct 2019
32,564 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Metro today says the Johnson has said the "final offer" goes to the EU today. So does that mean we'll get an EU decision (rejection) today. If so, and there is therefore confirmed no deal, then surely he could/should then be obliged to put the extension request in, and if he doesn't he is in breach of the law (Benn Act 2019!)
Arrest him!  G
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Oct 2019
9:50am, 2 Oct 2019
3,365 posts
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Raemond
Probably not a decision today, no. The full proposal is being handed over, then they'll obviously chew on it for a while and discuss amongst themselves before coming back with comments/tweaks/whatever. I doubt there'll be a definite aceptance/rejection for some time yet, this is more likely to be the start of some fairly intense horse trading to see if a final deal can be hammered out before the Council meeting in two weeks.
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Oct 2019
10:06am, 2 Oct 2019
32,569 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
I thought the EU Council meeting was for something other than Brexit and actually Britain's deal or otherwise wasn't supposed to be on the agenda? Rather that UK were slightly "hijacking" it because all EU member states were present? Or did I completely pick that up wrongly somewhere? G
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Oct 2019
10:08am, 2 Oct 2019
5,348 posts
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jda
It's all purely performative, nothing to do with real negotiations but intended to bolster the tories in the forthcoming election.
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Oct 2019
10:10am, 2 Oct 2019
3,366 posts
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Raemond
You're not wrong, but it's also the convenient time, with the leaders of the 27 all together, to sign off a deal if we and TF50 have managed to agree one.
That's a pretty big if, of course.
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Oct 2019
10:15am, 2 Oct 2019
5,349 posts
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jda
There's been no attempt to agree a plan. There just hasn't been. These things don't just appear from nowhere, people have to work on them.
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Oct 2019
10:19am, 2 Oct 2019
32,571 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Err, I would say that it sounds like UK have put forward some proposals. I think they're all barking and I agree they haven't attempted to "negotiate" or get "agreement" but they are floating some ideas. There is a *chance* that EU will do some of UK's work for them and try and propose how some of those UK suggestions could be *made* workable, rather than just rejecting them out of hand.
But yes, it's all a shambles. This is where we should have been starting when A50 was triggered (or arguably before).
What are the complicated arrangements that need to be in place in order to leave a great big trading and legal framework in an orderly way, that is acceptable to the EU27, to the gov't of the UK, the people of the UK via all their parliamentary representatives? It's a flippin difficult question and isn't surprising that even with hard work, good will, and a realistic engagement with all those parties, it would be tough in 2-3 years.
But to think it can all be sorted out in the last 30 days is just ludicrous. Grrr.
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Oct 2019
10:37am, 2 Oct 2019
4,813 posts
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BanjoBax
Boris wasn't put in power to agree something, but to put johnny foreigner in his place and tell him what he'll have
Are the details of Boris's final offer going to be made available to the public?
If so will it be playing to the galleries or a genuine attempt to get a deal ?
an aside:
been listening to Hans Rosling's "Factfulness" book on Audible on the drive to work - showed me a lot of the ideas shaping my world view were out of date or just plain wrong, proves experts are often worse than chimps (but typically better than the masses who are even worse). The argument being how can you make decisions about the world if your view of the world is wrong. Not exciting but factful.
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