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Nov 2021
1:36pm, 1 Nov 2021
11,053 posts
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jda
I don't understand the line of argument that a steady run has to be long enough to be stressful or else it's not training you adequately. I can see that mark as being an upper limit to how long it should be, and also that more is generally better up to that point, but I thought the whole point of the lower zone stuff is that the benefits to the aerobic system explicitly *don't* require such stress.
I'm sure I would break myself if I ran steady to the point of rising stress every day (whether that was achieved through gradually raising the intensity of a regular hour run, or just doing more and more miles at a steadier pace).
Maybe I'm being picky but I really think it's useful to keep focus on the point that most of the training for endurance sports should not be stressful. I'm also confident that my diet of steady running has got me very close to my true potential. There just isn't that much more I could achieve by working harder.
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Nov 2021
1:45pm, 1 Nov 2021
15,930 posts
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larkim
@Kieran - thanks. I think Gobi (from memory, so correct me if necessary!) puts the long run activity "optimal" window at about 90 minutes, so somewhere in there to 2 hours seems pretty understandable.
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Nov 2021
2:03pm, 1 Nov 2021
22,890 posts
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Rosehip
What do you mean by steady, jda? Is your steady = easy or more effort than that?
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Nov 2021
2:13pm, 1 Nov 2021
15,931 posts
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larkim
[Loving the question of whether steady = easy as if either of them are fixed terms!]
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Nov 2021
2:14pm, 1 Nov 2021
3,751 posts
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Oscar the Grouch
And yet, you are the man who wants fixed answers, Larks 
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Nov 2021
2:17pm, 1 Nov 2021
2,483 posts
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Canute
jda
I think the most clearly defined point in have a criterion for determining when a low aerobic run is reaching the point of being stressful is to help you avoid overtraining.
There was a study many years ago that I cannot easily locate right now that demonstrated that you can over train with too much low intensity training.
With regard to the question of whether there is any benefit from easy sessions that do not reach the criterion for onset of perceptible stress, I think there is benefit. There is quite a lot of evidence for health benefits from modest amounts of walking, so I would expect some training benefit from easy session that do not produce perceptible stress. However for a recreational runner with limited time for training who wishes to maximise training effects within the limited time available, I suspect they might get maximum benefit within that time by aiming to get near to the onset of perceptible (but very mild stress) in most sessions.
I personally find that subjective awareness is the most sensitive measure of training stress, but it takes time to train your brain to be sensitive enough.
It might be that you have already trained your brain to recognise when you are training as hard as your body can cope with.
I personally know that I will never ever reach anything like the levels of performance I achieved fifty years ago. However, after a period with very easy training I deteriorate in a very noticeable manner, and I can once again improve my fitness by doing sessions that take me to the point of perceptible stress.
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Nov 2021
2:25pm, 1 Nov 2021
1,369 posts
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Welshpoppy
I have been following you guys for a few days and been enjoy the discussion's for my own tuppence worth I find since I came back from rupture Achilles .I have not had any choice, but to run easy+ run to a lower HR and over the 5 years I have seen marked improvement.
But my area is Hilly so my HR is not as low as I would like it .The older I get this seems sensible to me as my goal is to run not to be hampered by injuries trying speed work that upsets my achilles.
When I came back after Achilles my 5k time was 32 minutes and I got it down to 26.45 with no speed work at all.
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Nov 2021
2:27pm, 1 Nov 2021
2,484 posts
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Canute
It is noteworthy that Ed Whitlock suffered knee arthritis that sometimes caused him to take a break from training. When he returned to training, he did not start with 3 hour very low intensity runs. He built up to 3 hour sessions (in fact even to 4 hours in his late 70’s) by taking careful note of how his body responded.
I believe that even low intensity training needs to be monitored for optimum benefit. Simple rules based on HR zones or total duration can be helpful, but if you want to derive maximum benefit, you need to listen to your body.
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Nov 2021
2:38pm, 1 Nov 2021
75,086 posts
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Gobi
there is a lot of over thinking going on
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Nov 2021
2:46pm, 1 Nov 2021
11,054 posts
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jda
Rosehip, I'm talking about running at what feels like a "forever" pace, though forever is a bit of an exaggeration as I get fatigued by about 2:30-3h (depending on condition) anyway however slow I go. But I don't expect to get to any sense of wanting/needing to stop in a run of 40-90 mins and wouldn't expect cardiac drift or any respiratory stress at all. I do try to keep properly running with a decent form though, it's not a lazy plod.
I was only quibbling with the suggestion that you want to be pushing to a feeling of stress even if you're only doing 40-60 mins say, in order to make best use of that time. My typical steady 40-90 mins when I'm marathon training is just a routine thing that leaves me feeling very comfortable. I'm much happier with an interpretation more along the lines of "you definitely don't want to go past this point" than "you ought to approach this point". But if my time was severely limited, then yes I'd probably go a bit harder on these steady runs.
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