Myth of the 20-mile long run

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Little Miss Happy Apr 2018 11:46am, 26 Apr 2018 765 posts	0 Little Miss Happy How long do you need to get into shape and how much are worried about the possibility of it being hot HappyG? There is the Hull marathon that jenny has mentioned which is definitely road, Gloucester, the Monster in Ely (not sure if that's measured and permitted though so you'd need to check).
HappyG(rrr) Apr 2018 12:19pm, 26 Apr 2018 28,659 posts	0 HappyG(rrr) V'rap, I see you are down for Lancaster? I did look at that, but it says "tough 1/4 mile to finish" - does it have an uphill to the castle to finish or something. Maybe I just shouldn't be such a woose. Thanks re Hull, I'll have a look at that too. And Gloucester and Ely too. Thanks for suggestions. Not so worried about hot LMH, I usually cope OK. I usually work on 6 months to train, max 2 marathons a year. This time I'll only have from after Edinburgh end of May, so only 3.5-4 months. But it should be enough. Chester went well last year as my only marathon of the year. I was quite sensible and build up nice and gradually for that one. AL, Dublin is very popular with a couple Fetchies - Paul the builder (and BS?) have done it a number of times. Used to be a Monday on a local holiday, but it's now on the Sunday and is bigger attendance and support because of it. I believe it has some undulations in it, but nothing too bad? G
GordonG Apr 2018 12:31pm, 26 Apr 2018 7,498 posts	0 GordonG HG, I’m pretty sure I saw you at London around Surrey Quays on a sharp right bend by a pub. Were you in Fetch vest, home colours? I was in the crowd – did you see me Going back to the thread title, something that’s always puzzled me in terms of the 20 mile run being “all you need” in mara training: what do people who run ultras do? If they’re training for a 50 miler do they still do no more than 20 miles in training? And if they do, say, 40 miles as their longest run in prep for a 50 miler, why should marathoners stop at 20 in training? confuzzled
Velociraptor Apr 2018 12:33pm, 26 Apr 2018 38,168 posts	0 Velociraptor Shhhh, :)G! I've only got Lancaster down as a placeholder/something to discuss with VP. My future race portfolio is just a big dustbin of dreams. But I'm hoping to do some of the shorter Lancaster races over the summer and maybe check out parts of the marathon course. And on topic, I discovered with my last marathon that a long running history plus long bike rides will go some way towards making up for the absence of 20-mile training runs, but doing the 20-mile training runs would be better.
HappyG(rrr) Apr 2018 12:39pm, 26 Apr 2018 28,661 posts	0 HappyG(rrr) I think saw you Gordon. Were you the one cheering? Yes, I was in Fetch colours. If you shouted "Go Fetchie" and it was loud enough for me to hear, I would probably have waved a wee thank you. What mile is Surrey Quays? If it's after about 15 miles, the wave may have been somewhat half hearted. I was struggling! Oops, sorry V'rap, have I outed you?! Autumn marathons anyone?! Gordon, ultra training is totally different. You can "walk / run" an ultra and it's totally normal. You can have done very little training and still get to the end. Also, everyone trains differently for ultras - the fast guys and gals at the front do everything - huge mileage, speed, hills and eating alfalfa sprouts. Through to folk at the back who just smoke their normal 20 a day and carry their beer with them and just double up on chips at the later aid stations. There's nae rools in ultras! G
larkim Apr 2018 12:48pm, 26 Apr 2018 4,543 posts	0 larkim @GordonG - with 1 mara and 1 ultra ("only" 33 miles) under my belt, my experience is highly limited, but having asked around the best advice I got was that 20-25 milers were about the max to be recommended, but if you were prepping for an ultra splitting the total distance over a weekend wasn't a bad idea (or at least getting close to it). I don't think I did enough of these, but I'm rectifying that a little this time aruond as I'm doing the same ultra in 2 weeks time - so if I've done 12-14 on the Saturday (for me, parkrun is 5 miles away, so 5 there, 3 around, 5 back is a sensible morning) I'll then do 20 on the Sunday to get to the 33 mile distance. Or vice versa, do 20 or thereabouts on the Saturday and do the remaining distance on the Sunday. I suspect in an ideal world where time wasn't an issue you might extend beyond 20-25 mile runs, as Steve Way / Marigold does when he is doing the 100km races etc I think, but for mere mortals up against other mere mortals I'm not sure how much you really benefit from running longer than 3-4 or so hours in one go in terms of physical training impact (there is of course a mental impact which is substantial, "knowing" you can run continuously for a prolonged period etc).
GordonG Apr 2018 12:50pm, 26 Apr 2018 7,499 posts	0 GordonG From the back of a 10 deep crown - all of whom were waving, cheering and blowing whistles - i did genuinely shout "go fetchie" to you. i took your lack of response as a personal slight and i regretted ever leaving home that morning to offer my support etc ah OK, that's a helpful explanation about ultras. As someone who has never run further than a HM but would like to do an off road ultra possibly next year (or a full iron man), that's helpful advice thanks
paul the builder Apr 2018 12:50pm, 26 Apr 2018 6,389 posts	0 paul the builder AL - I'm a multiple Dublin-er. My main criticism of it used to be that it was on a Monday, but they've seen sense finally and made it the last Sunday of October now. So I recommend. Feel free to ask more questions here or fmail if you want.
GordonG Apr 2018 12:51pm, 26 Apr 2018 7,500 posts	0 GordonG larkim, that's also helpful, thanks.
Little Miss Happy Apr 2018 12:57pm, 26 Apr 2018 766 posts	0 Little Miss Happy Gordon - as someone who has completed both IM and ultras the training for each is very different. There is very little run training for an IM (comparative to training for a marathon). When ultra training I favour the back to back long run approach and the odd long day out (if the weather is nice) where I may do 30 miles or so. Happy - I asked how long you needed as there is also Yeovil but that's in June so to soon for you from the sounds of it?