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Jul 2020
12:41pm, 10 Jul 2020
5,141 posts
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Mouseytongue
Interesting talk of base training. I came back to rowing after a year in the sans mojo wilderness (feeling ya, Muttley). Wasn't expecting much to begin with, but after 2 and a half months of reasonable meterage my fitness was still pretty shocking! So I've undertaken to do a couple of months base training - i.e. some decent distance at MAF heart rate (180-age-5).
Obviously, only 10 days in there's no appreciable improvement in numbers, but I feel more able to tolerate the work. It makes for some pretty long sessions - think 60 min 10k's - glad I invested in a seat pad! Nice work, all.
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Jul 2020
9:47pm, 11 Jul 2020
36,688 posts
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Nellers
And you're smashing the distance league this month on that diet Mousey! Well done.
Something that Travis Gardner bloke on YouTube said about HR as a guide: When you're rowing you're sitting down so your HR will be a bit lower for the same effort compared to running. On that basis you could maybe drop the -5 from the calculation if you feel comfortable doing that.
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Jul 2020
11:47am, 12 Jul 2020
36,689 posts
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Nellers
Ploughed through 4 x 5km at nice comfy aerobic pace this morning. Surprisingly comfy actually. I wasn’t expecting to feel so able in the last 5km piece at all given that the rowing has been a bit limited in the last week or 2 and that I’m still feeling the long bike ride from yesterday in my legs.
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Jul 2020
3:42pm, 12 Jul 2020
749 posts
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Muttley
I've been aware of the MAF method for a while. If I were to use it my MAF hr would be 120, having turned 60 this year. The hr number is suddenly bumped up by 10 when you hit 65, although it makes more sense to have a gradual increase from either 55 or 50. In which case I guess I'd be 125. At 120 I'd be erging at 2:20-ish/500, at 125 closer to 2:16, depending on conditions and duration. As for running, it'd be slow slow shuffle/walk.
But here's my gripe, about MAF and hr training in general. As we get older, the upper range of our hr reduces. When I got my first hrm, more than 20 years ago, I did yer proper running test to hit my max, and got my heart to 175, which I counted as 180 because we stop before destruction. From that, and with my resting hr, my optimum aerobic range was in the 130s, getting anaerobic in the top 140s and low 150s (if I recall correctly). On harder runs I'd regularly see my heart in the 150s, nudging to 160. And I'd feel the anaerobic-ness (is that a word?) in my breathing.
But nowadays I'm still comfortably aerobic running in the 130s -- easy breathing, etc. But 20 years on, I haven't seen much over low 150s for a while now (and I live in a very hilly place) no matter how hard I push.
So if I were to come to hr training now, as an older runner, my training bands would be way out of kilter and would not take into account the proportionately bigger aerobic band and somewhat flatter higher rate bands. But I've not seen any training literature that discusses this.
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Jul 2020
3:43pm, 12 Jul 2020
750 posts
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Muttley
*55 or 60*
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Jul 2020
4:37pm, 12 Jul 2020
36,690 posts
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Nellers
Muttley, there's a discussion of this point going on over on the Heart Rate thread all the time.
MAF using just a formula based on age is probably rubbish because we're all individuals (I'm not!) and so different from person to person. Any system that assumes we're the same as everyone our age is going to be wrong a lot.
If you do a max test, though, and also find your resting HR, then working out zones based on the difference between resting and max works. As we age our resting HR usually creeps up as well, se despite losing some of the top end I'm also losing some of the bottom end and my zones are more-or-less where they always were.
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Jul 2020
5:52pm, 12 Jul 2020
5,148 posts
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Mouseytongue
^ Nice sesh, Nellers!
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Jul 2020
4:47pm, 14 Jul 2020
36,708 posts
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Nellers
Last night I had 6 x 2km at tempo (about 2:02) pace on the plan. Binned it off after 4 reps as it was pretty hot in the shed and I just felt wrecked. Still, hit the paces I wanted and don't feel too bad today.
No rowing on the plan today. Picking up heavy things tonight. Raargh etc.
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Jul 2020
5:56pm, 14 Jul 2020
36,709 posts
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Nellers
Ok, so I did do 15 minutes warm up on the erg before weights. 3500m ticked off.
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Jul 2020
11:50am, 15 Jul 2020
768 posts
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Muttley
When stripped of the supporting spiel and mystique, the MAF plan is basically working at 70%-ish of max hr, which is pretty much what any hr plan will prescribe only in this case a little lower. This is imho, of course. My MAF number works fine for erging but is a non-starter for running -- I just can't run that slow. But one advantage of the MAF number is its simplicity. All that said, with 40-odd years of running on and off behind me, if my aerobic base isn't in shape by now at age 60 it never will be!
Anyhoo ... a warmup and couple of 15-minute rows at UT1 this morning. Felt a bit creaky in the back after spending yesterday filling raised beds in the garden (oooh, me back) but eased up nicely during the sesh. The erg is a great stiffness loosener.
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Concept 2 challenge: 15 minutes
Nov 2024