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Sep 2022
10:10am, 30 Sep 2022
38,395 posts
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SPR
Worth including what watch you have in the blog?
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Sep 2022
10:18am, 30 Sep 2022
26,601 posts
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Rosehip
Thanks SPR, will do
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Sep 2022
10:36am, 30 Sep 2022
20,719 posts
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flanker
It's always felt like the Garmin/firstbeat analysis is heavily weighted towards going short and fast; basically raising VO2max. If you do lots of long slow stuff it doesn't seem to fit into its algorithms very well.
Also noticed recently that I'm maintaining far more, whereas previously I'd have been (incorrectly IMO) unproductive/detraining. Which might actually suggest it **is** starting to factor in long slow efforts far better🤣
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Sep 2022
10:42am, 30 Sep 2022
19,139 posts
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larkim
I must admit I find the Garmin VO2Max output derived from its firstbeat stuff to be pretty damned good at tracking my fitness improvements and declines. I do do some VO2Max efforts pretty regularly (parkrun mostly, but some other stuff from time to time) so maybe that backs up what you're saying, but even at the moment when most of my efforts are slow, Z2 stuff, the outputted VO2Max figures from each run (that I review via runalyze) do look pretty accurate.
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Sep 2022
10:47am, 30 Sep 2022
26,603 posts
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Rosehip
The VO2max it give me, I think, it too ‘high’ and rarely changes.
I have also noticed that it lets me stay in maintaining and/or recovery longer than it used to. Haven’t seen unproductive or detraining for ages, despite the permanent ‘anaerobic shortage’ message.
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Sep 2022
10:48am, 30 Sep 2022
15,615 posts
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Badger
On my F6 the predictions used to be hilariously optimistic. They're not bad now - slightly pessimistic up to half going by my best times in the last year (but could well be in line with what I could actually run today), bit optimistic for marathon but then I slow down a lot past half distance (age grades absolutely plummet).
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Sep 2022
11:08am, 30 Sep 2022
19,141 posts
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larkim
@Rosehip - it shouldn't change much, but if you were to use runalyze you can see the decimal places which can be interesting. e.g. my 8m35 paced run over 7 miles last night was 53.77, whereas my 8m32 paced run over 7 miles on Tuesday was 54.40. Both would suggest a static 54 shown on the watch, but I reported a higher HR for last night's run which is reflected in the score.
I think that the absolute score for a run is outputted as a change from the previous run too (or something along those lines), so if you've got a score of 54 on your watch today, but tomorrow run a 13min 5k (!) it won't suddenly give you a score of 85 (which might be the VO2Max score for such a fast run), but it would give a significant boost from 54 to (say) 57. Do the 13min 5k (and training at that sort of level in terms of pace / HR) for a few weeks though and it would eventually creep up to the right score.
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Sep 2022
11:24am, 30 Sep 2022
38,396 posts
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SPR
Yes, I did regular intervals for a month around March and VO2 max was constantly climbing but race performance wasn't as good as when it was lower. The issue really is VO2 max isn't really what leads to performance improvement in well trained runners, it's what you can do at sub VO2 max paces.
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Sep 2022
11:31am, 30 Sep 2022
19,144 posts
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larkim
VO2Max is just one benchmark, but there is a reasonably reliable correlation between VO2Max and times in races, but it will always be at the very least a normal distribution of people who do better or worse than those predictions for factors such as their running efficiency (amongst others).
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Sep 2022
12:35pm, 30 Sep 2022
38,397 posts
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SPR
If what you say was the case, then we could just use the VO2 max predictions as per earlier Garmins and be done with it. The point is VO2 Max isn't the most important factor or/ and is just the starting point and doesn't actually change much so if Garmin is showing a VO2 Max change in a well trained runner, is it really a VO2 Max change?
Also a reliable distribution is useless if you're trying to then apply it to tell people individual numbers. You wouldn't expect programs to estimate your weight based on a normal distribution based on race times or some factor. Obviously VO2 Max is harder for individuals to verify and the methods may be fairly good, but you get the point I'm making hopefully.
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Garmin 735xt problem
Jan 2021