Garmin

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larkim
larkim
Sep 2022
12:55pm, 30 Sep 2022
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larkim
But what I'm saying *is* the case :-) It's the fundamental behind the VDOT tables that JD uses. But it is a bell curve and it isn't precise. TrainingPeaks article suggests 70% of an athletes racing speed is correlated to VO2Max, but that does leave a chunky 30% for other factors; and my guess is that that's what the newer watch calcs are trying to bring in - tweaking the calcs so that someone who has an estimated VO2Max by the (flawed, but OK in many cases) FirstBeat stuff isn't just given a number read off a VDOT table, but a number which reflects other stuff the watch/Garmin "knows" about the runner.

As for whether what the Garmin watch is picking up is a real VO2Max change, I don't know - but it is a good proxy for improving (or declining) fitness.
SPR
SPR
Sep 2022
1:03pm, 30 Sep 2022
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SPR
Vdot isn't VO2 max though is it? It is a number that includes running efficiency. It presumes your effective VO2 max is a number based on your running speed but that's not the same thing as real VO2 max AIUI. Athletes across other sports will match runners VO2 Maxes but won't run near the same speed.
SPR
SPR
Sep 2022
1:06pm, 30 Sep 2022
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SPR
...and will therefore have lower VDOTs.
larkim
larkim
Sep 2022
3:48pm, 30 Sep 2022
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larkim
VDOT is VO2Max I'm pretty sure. Derived from the fact that when writing it properly it should be a V with a dot on the top of it before the "O2Max" bit.

JD just used it as something of a branded term. I may be wrong however (I frequently am!)
SPR
SPR
Sep 2022
3:55pm, 30 Sep 2022
38,403 posts
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SPR
fellrnr.com
SPR
SPR
Sep 2022
3:56pm, 30 Sep 2022
38,404 posts
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SPR
If VO2 Max was so easy to measure, the lab protocol for doing so would be fairly useless.
SPR
SPR
Oct 2022
11:34am, 1 Oct 2022
38,407 posts
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SPR
Regarding how Garmin calculates Max HR, it may be a coincidence but once I added my weight in, fitness age calculates at 30 (the lowest I can go apparently). Using the 210-(0.65*age) formula, that comes out as 190.5 which correlates with the 191 I had detected on my first run with the watch. Doesn't explain the increase to 193 on Thursday which suggests there's more going on (although I wonder whether it keeps track of a raw fitness age before applying the limit).
larkim
larkim
Oct 2022
12:03pm, 1 Oct 2022
19,153 posts
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larkim
I agree that the Garmin VO2max stuff is light years away from lab tests, but nonetheless it does give reasonable outputs given its limitations. I'm going for a vo2max lab test at some point this year so it will be interesting to see how my data varies.
Steve NordRunner
Steve NordRunner
Oct 2022
12:26pm, 1 Oct 2022
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Steve NordRunner
Yeah, Garmin has been giving me a very stable and flattering (for my age) 50 for months and months, yet if I run a reverse WAVA on the 5 km time it predicts for me it usually comes out at about 40. The one hand doesn't know what the other is doing. The predictions themselves are getting quite close to reality, though still optimistic.
SPR
SPR
Oct 2022
12:55pm, 1 Oct 2022
38,408 posts
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SPR
I agree that the Garmin VO2max stuff is light years away from lab tests, but nonetheless it does give reasonable outputs given its limitations. I'm going for a vo2max lab test at some point this year so it will be interesting to see how my data varies.


Was referring to VDOT which isn't really trying to calculate true VO2 Max hence why it always goes up when you get faster. Garmin in theory now takes load into account so a speed improvement doesn't have to be a VO2 Max increase. My main issue with Garmins previously, which from reports may have changed, was the training status being almost wholly focused on VO2 Max which meant it thought training was unproductive pretty easily.

I agree that whether it is accurate, that the trend can be useful. But going back to Flanker's point, certain intervals will lead to a higher VO2 Max on Garmins if performed consistently but may not be the best for race performance. A long run isn't usually good for VO2 max relatively for example. This may all change in the future but it's wise to ensure you don't tinker training too much to improve the number with a disregard for what is usually the best training for your distance (I expect most that have been here a while won't do this).

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