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Jul 2021
1:06pm, 28 Jul 2021
39,347 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Think I'd challenge the savings amount:"
Drivers could save over £100 a year using on-street as opposed to rapid
charging
Assuming 10k miles per year costs and rapid charging 40p/kWh (some 15p, 30p, 50p, pick a number!) and home charging is 5p/kWh (daytime 16p, some night time down at 4p and even down to zero with solar or other variable tariffs, so 5p reasonable?) and 4 miles per kWh (average car efficiency?)
Petrol/diesel - £1200 (assuming 50mpg and £1.20 litre)
Public/rapid charging - £1000
Home overnight charging - £125
?
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Jul 2021
1:21pm, 28 Jul 2021
5,563 posts
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TheScribbler
Thanks HappyG. I didn’t have anything to do with writing that report, I just work for an electrical wholesalers that supplies charging equipment (CEF).
I have to say that most gov.uk info and reports like this are written in a similarly accessible style. How much that has to do with some training I did with their writing team about 7 years ago, I couldn’t say 
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Jul 2021
1:48pm, 28 Jul 2021
28 posts
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roflaherty
HappyG I decided to be as fair as possible to make the figures that. I used zap-map.com to calculate the various costs.
Checked out some groups online and they all said that the figures on that calculator match with what they get in their current EVs.
It is a whole new world of technology - and despite reading up about all these things over the years, there is so much you need to consider after you purchase.
Things are slightly complicated by the worldwide semiconductor shortage.
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Jul 2021
1:56pm, 28 Jul 2021
39,348 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
I, like you, had done a fair bit of research to make sure it fitted with my life, what my priorities were etc. And that included that there were rapid chargers in Scotland, and on long distance routes I would use etc.
However, the one thing I was shocked about was that the companies providing those chargers were all effectively silo'd and separate. (It reminded me of the early days of and immaturity of the early internet provision - if you wanted to chat in these forums, then you had to use this internet connection e.g. Compuserve vs. AOL etc. - anyone remember those days, mid 90s?!)
It won't last. Market forces will ensure that all chargers will have to work with all cars and all customers, as easily as possible, or they'll die out. However, if the gov't wants it to fix itself quickly, it may have to step in, like that CMA report recommends, and *mandate* simple and compatible payment methods. Seesh, we're not even talking about the hard part of the electricity bit (connectors and charging types), we're talking about allowing people to pay!
I'm amazed at how easy and cheap home charging is. I didn't think that would be 90% of how I charge the car! G
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Jul 2021
2:05pm, 28 Jul 2021
2,650 posts
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HappyTimes
HG Excuse my stupidity here (possibly), but is that calculation you have done basically saying if you do not have a home set up then the "fuel" running costs for EV v ICE are pretty much the same!?
Also the poor article referred to couple pages back and subsequent comment.
Is that not just it, until EV is as or at least almost as "convenient" as ICE cars they will still be viewed by many as niche.
I know personally I value the part of car ownership that is convenient and I don't need to plan daily my use of it.
If I am super unorganised and find myself almost out of fuel I can still make that urgent appointment or generally get where I want to without anxiety or a delay (in out nearest fuel station which are pretty much limitless and in the space of a couple minutes).
Otherwise I may use public transport (insert laughing emojis here) or cycle more.
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Jul 2021
2:14pm, 28 Jul 2021
39,350 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
HT, yes, all of that is true.
I don't have a problem with the anxiety bit because I'm pretty organised. a. I'll be 100% charged when I start and b. I'll have sussed and planned the charging en route. My wife on the other hand...!
So yes, convenience (as in spontaneity) is a challenge in EV, today. A bit.
And yes, if you charge at 40p per kWh all the time, in the daytime, at the rapid charging points that are on the motorway, then it's not much cheaper than a very efficient petrol or diesel car (I used 50mpg for the ICE car, as stated).
But I'm saving nearly £2,000 per year vs my 30mpg car. G
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Jul 2021
2:44pm, 28 Jul 2021
2,651 posts
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HappyTimes
HG,
Thank you very much for honest and reasonable response.
"But I'm saving nearly £2,000 per year vs my 30mpg car. G"
Playing devils advocate a little with above statement. Can it not be reasonably argued that saving is as much, or more so from coming down car Brand and model somewhat?
Anyway happy EV driving to you and all here with or soon to have
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Jul 2021
3:03pm, 28 Jul 2021
39,352 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Yip, again HT, you're absolutely correct of course! Pure monetary saving, probably cheapest thing any of us could do for transport is a massively efficient, old car, with very low purchase and maintenance cost and fuel e.g. a 1970s Reliant Robin 3 wheeler with a Haynes manual and some tools for DIY servicing.
Unfortunately, I am not that driver/owner!
If I want to drive a safe, reliable, reasonably comfortable, modern car, the cheapest for me is an electric Korean hatchback, it seems, at the mo!
Of course, my main driver was to reduce emissions. So saving money wasn't the main objective. But it's a nice bonus that it's much cheaper to fill up. G
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Jul 2021
3:12pm, 28 Jul 2021
2,652 posts
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HappyTimes
HG I meant your own example of previous BMW to what you have now.
I don't believe you were able to replace like for like were you.
So had you went from previous level to current, but in an ICE format then would your cost of ownership not have reduced similarly and achieved same levels of reliability, comfort, safety.
Emissions is a whole different can of worms isn't it
Happy motoring
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Jul 2021
3:22pm, 28 Jul 2021
39,353 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
For sure, HT - someone driving a 30mpg gas guzzler could change to a 50mpg vehicle and save 40% on fuel bills (sort of by definition!) I wouldn't even have to change brands. The diesel version of the BMW I had was closer to 50mpg, the petrol was 30mpg. So I could have saved £800 per year in fuel by just having picked a 420d instead of a 420i!
But diesel ... bad! G
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