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Aug 2022
7:28pm, 10 Aug 2022
23,313 posts
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Bazoaxe
Why would you vote red Tory when you have been so against them?
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Aug 2022
7:32pm, 10 Aug 2022
9,459 posts
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57.5 Degrees of Pain
You supporters of another independence referendum just don't understand democracy. Giving millions of Scots a vote is out of the question. Allowing 160,000 Tories to choose between two people making ludicrous promises is how it should be done.
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Aug 2022
7:34pm, 10 Aug 2022
2,575 posts
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Surelynot
All parties in Scotland would have to look at policies for a new Scotland. The current unionist parties would have to stop being pale reflections of the Westminster parties that pull their strings. The SNP, if it survived, would have to convince me they have a good manifesto for Scotland.
I would consider any left-of-centre party that had a decent prospectus for creating a more equal Scotland. In a new nation, that could well be Scottish Labour party.
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Aug 2022
7:40pm, 10 Aug 2022
23,315 posts
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Bazoaxe
57.5, I don’t argue about democracy, and I think Scotland would vote no again. I don’t believe the demand is there though in the current economic climate.
I do find it hard to see this realignment of options without the snp.
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Aug 2022
10:16pm, 10 Aug 2022
6,012 posts
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Fields
Non-Scot here though my Mum was born there I think. I hope the people of Scotland get the independence they richly deserve
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Aug 2022
10:41pm, 10 Aug 2022
9,467 posts
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57.5 Degrees of Pain
57.5, I don’t argue about democracy, and I think Scotland would vote no again. I don’t believe the demand is there though in the current economic climate. I do find it hard to see this realignment of options without the snp.
I think a vote tomorrow would be a narrow no.
However if I was the SNP I'd continue using the propensity of the English Tories to vote in the sort of PMs guaranteed to wind up the Scots, be patient as demographics move in your favour, make the next Scottish election an effective referendum (because you wouldn't want to fight it on your performance in power) and then push hard for a proper referendum with the hope of a hung parliament at the next Westminster poll.
Not sure their activists have the patience though.
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Aug 2022
12:59am, 11 Aug 2022
23,317 posts
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Bazoaxe
I agree the tories keep scoring own goals. However I find the waiting on demographics whilst continuing with a grievance based approach odd. This appeals to those already converted
I think the snp strategy would be better if they focussed on
1) showing they can govern effectively today with the powers they have
2). Putting forward the case and crucially addressing how they will deal with ‘project fear’ rather than deny those risks exist
However as it’s so tight I don’t see much changing for a long time unless we see a change in U.K. government or the snp make some huge mistake or series of mistakes of their own.
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Aug 2022
1:29am, 11 Aug 2022
6,016 posts
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Fields
Bazo - would you be in favour of an independent Scotland if it didn’t affect your pension?
It seems to me your primary concern from reading your posts is maintaining your financial position eg pension etc which you have a zero-risk attitude towards - which I’m not having a go at  it’s totally understandable - but assume that there was no risk to your financial situation either way is there a world where you are in favour of independence?
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Aug 2022
6:44am, 11 Aug 2022
23,318 posts
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Bazoaxe
Fields I don’t think I mentioned pensions yesterday although I have done in the past. I don’t think you can boil it down to just one issue to n my ale a decision
Clearly when you get to my age what happens on pensions is important but I can’t be selfish and be ok at the expense of others.
Pensions though is an area where the snp position is confused. Blackford tells us that the U.K. government will pay our pensions like they do for anyone who has worked in the U.K. paid nI and moved abroad. He also suggested for any pension accrued in Scotland we may pay more. Presumably as we don’t have the liability to pay existing and future pensions
This position conveniently ignores the fact that others who moved abroad didn’t take 5 million tax payers or future tax payers with them.
Sturgeon has said the opposite and Scotland will take on the liability as part of a negotiated settlement. On this I agree with sturgeon.
If overall there was zero risk to scotlands finances I would likely vote yes.
I go back to what I said before though. There are risks. Let’s accept them and outline how we mitigate those and at the same time let’s make a better job than they do now. That will be more effective than waiting for old people to die
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Aug 2022
7:07am, 11 Aug 2022
13,157 posts
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jda
"If overall there was zero risk to scotlands finances I would likely vote yes."
Does the status quo option also have to be zero risk for you to vote no, or is this a completely one-sided bet for you?
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