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Sep 2020
12:03am, 19 Sep 2020
11,627 posts
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rf_fozzy
But and here is the difference. The government can mitigate bankruptcies, house reposessions and the effects from these. If they aren't doing so, I can't control that - I didn't vote for them. But plenty of Brexit supporters and other people did, so you reap what you sow to some extent.
And yes, there are side effects of taking action. But you didn't answer my question: How many people are you willing to sacrifice for normality?
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Sep 2020
12:06am, 19 Sep 2020
11,628 posts
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rf_fozzy
And there will be lots of bankruptcies, house reposessions, family breakups, mental health issues etc etc from Brexit too btw.
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Sep 2020
12:07am, 19 Sep 2020
43,962 posts
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Lip Gloss
True
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Sep 2020
12:16am, 19 Sep 2020
1,896 posts
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Cheg
"How many lives would you risk for freedom"
It's this idea we lived a risk free existence prior to covid.
The guy that speeds "how many lives are you prepared to risk to get to your destination 5 minutes early?" Well none. I expect not to crash and most the time he's right. Rarely he's wrong and the cost is heavy.
People have talked about this dreamworld where there are no restrictions and no death. Which is obviously not right.
But at the other extreme is a dreamworld where we all wfh indefinitely. Hunker down and no jobs are lost and we all come out of hiding in a year with a vaccine.
In terms of the pandemic there's a very real, visible and fairly quantifiable impact. With Brexit although I'm sure it will impact the economy, it will be a lot harder to put a number on it and it will be much less visible in the main.
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Sep 2020
12:24am, 19 Sep 2020
11,629 posts
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rf_fozzy
Hahahaha. Plenty of people put numbers on Brexit. They were dismissed as "project fear" - most of which have been very close to mark (and no not the headlines that were spu out of the *real* projections). And I've yet to see £350million a week for the NHS...
Yes, you're right re: Risks, Cheg.
But most of those risks still exist.
The important thing here is how we define impact of restrictions vs impact of no restrictions.
Jovi is advocating removal of all restrictions, so it's a reasonable question to ask if this is worth a deaths and problems that will cause vs the effect of restrictions. And that question is quite that straightforward: how many lives is your personal "freedom" (i.e. removal of all covid restrictions) worth?
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Sep 2020
12:30am, 19 Sep 2020
11,630 posts
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rf_fozzy
Btw, it's also perfectly reasonable to ask the question, how many lives is it worth to protect the ~20% of the UK population who are vulnerable safe from CV-19?
(and yes, you can include lives 'ruined' by the economic fallout if you like).
For me if lives saved by restrictions > lives lost due to restrictions, then we're along the right lines.
But there *are* nuances in there too.
And as I've said, I don't totally agree with everything that has been enacted. And I certainly don't agree that all of this isn't been discussed in parliament.
But there are no simple solutions either way.
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Sep 2020
12:35am, 19 Sep 2020
1,897 posts
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Cheg
In regards risk. With the current lack of restrictions we could ask the following
Going down the pub? "How many lives are you prepared to risk for your precious pint?"
Going to play team sport "How many lives are you prepared to risk for your physical and mental well being?"
By your logic we must already be putting a price (lives) on those things compared to full lock down.
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Sep 2020
12:48am, 19 Sep 2020
11,631 posts
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rf_fozzy
Those are perfectly reasonable Qs, cheg.
From the evidence I've seen the outdoor sports activities are much lower risk (therefore fewer extra cases) than going to the pub (more extra cases).
But of lower economic impact perhaps?
The positive impact of sport (mental and physical and therefore savings to NHS) will also need throwing into the equation too.
But as I say, perfectly reasonable Qs.
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Sep 2020
7:49am, 19 Sep 2020
890 posts
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JR
Fozzy - How exactly would the government mitigate bankruptcy & job loss - the old magic money tree?
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Sep 2020
7:53am, 19 Sep 2020
891 posts
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JR
It’s the gaslighting that is abhorrent & this whole idea that it is risking someone else’s health by doing perfectly normal human activities - working, socialising, playing sport. If someone had said to you this time last year - do you realise playing sport in the winter may cause flu to circulate more widely therefore you must stop or you risk killing your vulnerable relatives you’d have quite rightly dismissed them as crazy. Nothing has changed in that regard IMO. You cannot forever curtail normal human social interaction with the threat of what it may or may not do to others. There lies societal breakdown.
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