Ultra training for beginners

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geordiegirl Mar 2021 1:49pm, 8 Mar 2021 13,700 posts	0 geordiegirl I rely on back to backs I’m slow to run 30+ in one go would be long so I am aiming to get to maybe 20(+) with maybe 10-15 next day
Rosehip Mar 2021 2:08pm, 8 Mar 2021 20,014 posts	0 Rosehip Thanks, Frag - that's a possibility to keep in mind
Derby Tup Mar 2021 2:34pm, 8 Mar 2021 49,240 posts	0 Derby Tup Unless you’re already really ultra fit you need time to recover from 30+ milers We’ve started doing our long runs on Monday nights. 20 miles tonight trail / fell planned (2/3 of the Haworth Hobble in reverse - finish and start)
chunkywizard Mar 2021 2:49pm, 8 Mar 2021 11,554 posts	0 chunkywizard anyone have any advice on my question from earlier re training for multiple runs in one day? [Q] I am planning on 100km in 24 hours at this years Endure 24 (fingers crossed it goes ahead). What would people recommend for training? I am running in a pair, we will probably do 10 miles on, 10 miles off, apart from over night where it will be 15 miles/15 miles so I have a chance of a bit of shut-eye. I'm running 50K in 3 weeks and am currently running 45-55 miles/ week so the distance shouldn't be an issue I'm guessing. Should I do specific training in the lead-up, like 10 miles x3 on a Sunday, maybe even working up to back to back multiple run days?
flyingfinn Mar 2021 3:07pm, 8 Mar 2021 2,557 posts	0 flyingfinn Personally I've always found (going back to marathon running days) that back to back days enable me to maintain a consistently higher volume of training, at a higher pace and reap the benefits that brings in terms of fitness to a far greater extent than focussing on individual big days (i.e. two days with 20+ miles will give you more return and take less recovery time than a single 40 miler, so you can do it again sooner....). I often work in blocks of 4 or 5 days where the first 3 or 4 days are quite high volume double days (same principle on a micro level) including some relatively quicker running and then the last day is the longest run of the week on tired legs (at least 4-5 hours, longer if in proper big hills). After a block of 8-10 weeks of doing that I get a significant drop in the HR required to move at ultra pace and find that it leaves me in a good place to race to 100+ miles. Any single longer runs in a build up (and there will only be one or maybe two) are more about mental/race prep than adding anything physical. Overall it's a system that works on maintaining a constant relatively high level of stress on my system rather than having a series of big peaks and troughs. It's what my body seems to respond to and has worked for me repeatedly over the years but it probably relies heavily on the amount of background I have and my general resistance to breaking. So it comes with the caveat that you need to build up to it and adjust it according to how your body responds if you try it.
flyingfinn Mar 2021 3:15pm, 8 Mar 2021 2,558 posts	0 flyingfinn Chunkywizard if I was you I'd definitely look to develop and practice a routine for waking up and getting 'run ready' after a relatively short period of sleep, including working out when the best time to eat is (for me I'd start on the premise of eating before sleeping and having strong coffee available on waking but everyone is different). I wouldn't be too worried about how far each run was in the practice (once you've done 2-3 miles your body will catch up anyway). So, I'd look at something like doing an a couple overnights of 4 miles every 4 hours to work hrough the routine. You're body won't adapt to it but your mind can start to understand how it feels and how to cope with it.
Paul N Mar 2021 3:16pm, 8 Mar 2021 2,254 posts	0 Paul N CW. Not an expert, but.... Re: Your 10 on 10 off event. I did a backyard ultra last year. The start stop element is a bit disconcerting, but the pace is easy and you're getting regular rests, so it only really starts to bite when you get into the wee small hours and the fatigue starts to accumulate. Difficult to replicate in training. I haven't listened to this in a while so I might be making it up, but I'm pretty sure Dave Proctor did an interview with Robbie Marsh on the Inspiration Runner podcast where he goes into detail about his prep for the Backyards which might be off use. It not an exact replica of what you are doing, but there will be common touch points. Re: your 50k. If it's on the 27/03, I'd do a "normal" long run this weekend and then taper. I think it is getting too close to the race for a 30 mile day, and you've got ample miles in the legs. Enjoy, it looks fun!
Derby Tup Mar 2021 4:12pm, 8 Mar 2021 49,242 posts	0 Derby Tup ff our Monday long run is a way to extent the weekend and get three decent days in - this weekend I ran up the Stoop three times on Saturday, did a brisk for me hilly road run yesterday and will be doing a long run tonight (with hilly dog walks included over the weekend - it’s 250 feet climb in the 0.3 or so of a mile up out of our valley whichever you go)
chunkywizard Mar 2021 4:26pm, 8 Mar 2021 11,555 posts	0 chunkywizard Thanks Guys. I've done Endure before so think I can deal with the getting up and running. Most laps I've done is 9 (each 5 miles) and this is only 13 but they will double and triple laps which is the bit that scares me a bit, maybe I have make sure I get the pace right early on, walking the hills etc. My strategy with regarding to fuelling last time was eat when I feel hungry which worked ok so I guess I'll do the same.
flanker Mar 2021 9:09pm, 8 Mar 2021 19,736 posts	0 flanker ff, one of the reasons I prefer the single longer run is that it tests the mental side of things more than doubles. If you can crank out a long day on a training run then doing it in a race scenario should(!) feel relatively easy. I agree it's not the recognised approach, but my best ultra performances, and generally highest mileage and injury-free periods, have come off that approach. It would usually be at the end of a peak week so I went in semi-fatigued, and with a mid-length run the following day.