The sub 3.30 marathon thread
190 watchers
Jan 2024
1:08pm, 19 Jan 2024
7,115 posts
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Oscar the Grouch
Blimey 5 x 1 mile is a big ask if you haven't got a background of doing them. I'd have started with 3 and built from there. You would have finished the session having done something hard enough but not with the feeling that you didn't complete. Same with 10k at that pace - 7.20 ish per mile? That's close to race pace (for me) and a big ask in a training session. I'd be more inclined to do 3 x 10 minutes off 10 minutes run recovery with chuncky warm up and down. You'd end up with a 9-10 mile run with *about* 4 miles at tempo?
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Jan 2024
2:08pm, 19 Jan 2024
3,843 posts
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tipsku
I'd agree with that, especially after your heroics last weekend with two long races back to back. I'm not surprised that your legs called it quits after 3 miles yesterday and today after 5ish. You may still be in recovery mode after the weekend.
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Jan 2024
2:23pm, 19 Jan 2024
7,116 posts
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Oscar the Grouch
I'm amazed you got to 5 today! But each of us is an experiment of one. Volume at a slower pace works for me and I know works for many as a first stop on the road to better times. Speed is the icing on the cake - volume is the cake. I'm sure different folk will have different views, but I've done a good number over the years and (fingers crossed) stayed injury free. Possibly I haven't reached my absolute potential but that's the trade off, I guess. |
Jan 2024
9:25pm, 19 Jan 2024
2,541 posts
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ptr_runner
Thanks for the comments both Oscar the Grouch tipsku. Much appreciated. I had mentioned in another thread that trying to work out paces and efforts when your current pace and goal paces differ drastically. I really need to do a proper test of fitness to see where I'm at right now. I'm pretty certain that today's effort would have been a success had I not been tired. I ran the half marathon last weekend at 4:40/km and that had 800m+ elevation gain, so ten km should be fine. Let's see what happens next week. As for volume, I hit 205 miles in November, with 135 miles in December. I've upped my volume substantially over the last half a year or so and can already tell that it's doing wonders for my fitness. I should hit 200 miles again in Jan if all goes to plan, though I am a little behind at the moment. |
Jan 2024
9:18am, 20 Jan 2024
2,491 posts
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SailorSteve
Oscar the Grouch sums up my thoughts exactly. I love running and I’m definitely much more “cake” than “icing” biased. But that’s because I’m most happy in my meditative, “run forever” state and I don’t enjoy any form of speed work. I’m sure I’ve not maximised my potential wrt race times, but I’m equally sure that my love of running has endured because I’ve stayed fit enough to keep enjoying it. Some of my running pals love their speed work “icing” and wouldn’t tolerate “cake” without it. Experiments of one, indeed. Whichever mix we choose, being/staying fit trumps everything. It sounds like you’re finding your balance and having fun with the challenge ptr_red nose runner. I’m enjoying you sharing your updates and look forward to more instalments💪 |
Jan 2024
9:51am, 20 Jan 2024
775 posts
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solo
I am definitely a cake person too but found when I added a bit of faster running in the beginning things progressed quickly. However, I find it is always a case of going back to more slow miles to keep the equilibrium. I, too, enjoy reading of your exploits ptr_red nose runner 😊 |
Jan 2024
9:56am, 20 Jan 2024
2,205 posts
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auburnette
I think tempo/LT efforts are a much more significant contribution to marathon fitness than anything more vo2 max focused, but the faster sessions are good to mix things up and add sharpness (especially near the end of a block). Massive oversimplification but vo2 max paces feel (to me) like "I can't talk, I'm breathing really hard, I need to stop and bend over at the end of this rep". Top end threshold feels a fraction slower than 10k pace, it's hard and unpleasant but somewhat sustainable, you don't need to bend over at the end of the effort but it's good to be done. Speeds of 15k to marathon pace are also somewhat "tempo" even though marathon pace can obviously be sustained much longer. HR is in zone 3-4 and breathing is laboured enough that you don't want to have a detailed conversation. I was told by a coach (and I think that a lot of marathon plans also support this) that the best results for marathon come from extended tempo sessions somewhere around HMP. Unfortunately these are quite difficult sessions especially done as a continuous run so I dread them, especially when they get up to 7 miles or so. |
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Jan 2024
3:52pm, 20 Jan 2024
3,845 posts
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tipsku
Sounds great, ptr_red nose runner. I remember that you said that you averaged 55 km per week in your previous marathon block so that increase in volume is huge! Well done! I also checked your profile and saw that you're at least 12 years younger than me. You can still churn out those harder sessions, even back to back, when I wouldn't be able to that anymore. Doing intervals followed by a hard tempo run may have been possible 10 years ago but now I'd need a recovery day in between. I also agree with your post about most efficient training for marathon success, auburnette. I tend to stick to longer tempo efforts and don't do much VO2 max or sprint workouts, maybe one each per month. In my previous P&D block, I did very little high intensity running. I'm working on a blog post about my pacing choices which should be ready next week. |
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Jan 2024
5:48pm, 20 Jan 2024
7,122 posts
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Oscar the Grouch
Good point. I'm in my early 50's and I fear SailorSteve may be a little further on again so that age factor does come in.
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Jan 2024
5:49pm, 20 Jan 2024
7,123 posts
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Oscar the Grouch
(He's also banging out marvellous marathon times, so worth tapping into the wisdom that comes with that)
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