|
Sep 2020
2:15pm, 7 Sep 2020
31,211 posts
|
SPR
I agree about the race number magic.
|
|
Sep 2020
2:22pm, 7 Sep 2020
179 posts
|
Big_G
I think seeing people around you doing the thing you’re doing, at the pace you’re doing it, really helps make it feel easier (presuming you’re in the correct group...). I think there’s something in it that psychologically seeing others are doing the thing you’re doing (whatever that is) proves it’s possible and hence easier.
I did a paired 5K race a couple of weeks ago, going off 60-secs apart. It was great pinning a number back on and I know that’s the way it’s going to be for a while, but it’s not a ‘proper’ race really. Better than nothing though.
Personally though I never run in an official pace group. I find it too limiting/stifling. If I want to go a bit quicker or a bit slower I want to be able to do that and running in an official group I find makes that difficult.
|
|
Sep 2020
2:27pm, 7 Sep 2020
11,839 posts
|
larkim
Honestly, I've only had two race experiences (for races longer than 3000m) where I've consciously used others - normally it's the watch all the way for me, no account whatsoever about what others are doing.
I'd exclude XC from that as I can't run that to a watch, but it's only been on my 10m PB and my PB 10k last year that I've ever managed to use others successfully.
Edit - make that three times, I did use the pacing group in the marathon, but that's slightly different.
|
|
Sep 2020
3:21pm, 7 Sep 2020
180 posts
|
Big_G
Larkim, in my case it's not really about using others as I'm not "racing" them as such, and I'm not surging or anything like that as I'm far from the sharp end and not in danger of challenging the group prizes (okay, I may try and out sprint someone in the final stages, but we all do that, right?). But being with other runners definitely makes things easier for me. Just looking around and knowing people around me are going for the same time as me makes it easier, even if it's just that I don't have to keep looking at my watch.
I can almost guarantee that if I go out and do a solo time trial and genuinely feel I've got nothing left and done my best, I'd have beaten that time in a proper race.
|
|
Sep 2020
3:26pm, 7 Sep 2020
11,841 posts
|
larkim
I get that, and that might be true (though unprovably so!) for me too. But I know I'm "good" at running hard in training, so when I've run faster in a race than I thought I could when training / running solo, I've just put it down to the bonuses I allow myself on race day - a specific nutrition approach, warm up, perhaps racing shoes, etc etc - rather than the other people in the race.
|
|
Sep 2020
3:46pm, 7 Sep 2020
31,214 posts
|
SPR
Larkim - Have you done a virtual race?
It just doesn't motivate me and I'd guess sub 18 would be a challenge in that scenario bbut in theory someone that doesn't need others and just needs a result list to perform could do well in those.
I seem to remember WW doing a good virtual performance during lockdown.
|
|
Sep 2020
3:57pm, 7 Sep 2020
181 posts
|
Big_G
For me, I've got some quite good markers i.e., doing a race one 5K race one week and then not being able to do that the next week in a solo time trial on a similar/flat course, with similar preparation. Isn't it partly the reason why something like a 5x1k session is a pretty good marker/confidence booster for what is possible in a 5K race?
You mention "unprovably so" but there's quite a lot of research that being part of a group is beneficial.
It'll be interesting to see how people get on with running the virtual London marathon, if they run it on their own. We're all different of course but some can do well in that scenario but I would say that the vast majority would do better in a proper race (presuming they pace the race correctly, etc etc etc).
|
|
Sep 2020
4:05pm, 7 Sep 2020
11,842 posts
|
larkim
I did a solo 18:39 as a sort of virtual race (on the Mid Cheshire 5k course, which was marked out but unusued), and then a virtual mile in 5:41 (as part of eldest son's mini league with his Uni mates). Plus a "proper" virtual race where I ran 40:15 over a hilly route just to earn a t-shirt form a race I'd entered pre-lockdown which i ran mostly at tempo until I realised I was close to sub 40.
But no real virtual races, I'm not 100% sure I see the point!
|
|
Sep 2020
4:10pm, 7 Sep 2020
11,843 posts
|
larkim
The "unprovably so" bit was for me as an individual - I know you're right that group running generally does elicit a better pace on average.
I'm no testosterone fuelled macho type, but I can (and have) run training runs so hard that I've emulated the finish line nausea (including output!), so I am fairly happy that I can exert myself as hard in training (and therefore by definition in a solo run) as I could in a race. Whether that means I'm quite as quick, I don't know, and I certainly wouldn't have confidence that I could maintain a PB effort over anything much longer than a 10k, but I reckon up to that distance if I had no choice but to run a solo TT I could probably be within 5-10s overall without others around me.
|
|
Sep 2020
4:31pm, 7 Sep 2020
182 posts
|
Big_G
I think some people presume that if someone can't run as quickly in training they're automatically mentally weak, which I really don't think is the case. Maybe that partly feeds in to the "no pain no gain" mentality, and where people find it hard to run easy? I too have nearly thrown up in training so I feel I can push myself quite hard but the group dynamic isn't really about that, in my view anyway. People can go out too hard at races or get themselves worked up at the start which impacts their race performance or try and hold on to a group that is too quick and have a rubbish race, but again that's not really what I'm on about.
But anyway, an interesting discussion. I'm not running at the moment (injured) but I'm about to go out for my 2nd ride of the day  I'm not a cyclist so this is something new for me having never done this before, but I'm off for a social ride with the local Tri club for the first time on a bike (I have trained with them whilst running in the past, but never swam or rode with them before).
|
