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Nov 2019
12:53pm, 5 Nov 2019
15,568 posts
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Bazoaxe
cardiac drift is a different matter and when that happens there isn't much you can do. The answer to that is in the training. For me the JD plan with lots of HM pace reps (eg 3 x 2 miles, 4 x 2 miles) I think helped me to push the point where this happened.
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Nov 2019
1:07pm, 5 Nov 2019
9,395 posts
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larkim
I can see my canal-side route being well used for Manchester too. Even if there was no evidence of whether training pan flat vs a bit of undulation made any difference to the physical performance level, having experience of how HR reacts / stablises / drifts etc on comparable terrain is important. Though possibly moreso in the reverse scenario where discovering how quickly HR recovers on descents and where to limit pace based on effort would be really useful in advance of running a hill race.
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Nov 2019
1:17pm, 5 Nov 2019
33,053 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Nah, I'll happily train by running 4 hour plus in the hills for my long runs and it never hurt me. Sure, some specific intervals, tempo or marathon pace stuff had to be on flattish routes, to hit the right paces, but 80% of training could be on any old location and for me, hills for preference. You just need 400m flat for intervals and a half mile square would do for tempos, and even MP at a (rather monotonous) push.  G
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Nov 2019
1:33pm, 5 Nov 2019
9,396 posts
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larkim
I do tend to pick MP routes that most closely resemble race routes just to experience the HR variability of similar terrain. e.g. if I know from training that a gentle hill should push my HR from 150 to 155 at 7:10 pace, that is useful info to have in my mind in a marathon which has a similar gentle hill. But I agree for the vast majority of training it makes less difference.
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Nov 2019
2:02pm, 5 Nov 2019
5,816 posts
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jda
Despite all my target races being basically flat, I'm happy to run on undulating terrain for the most part (my 20 mile loop has almost 400m elevation) but I do use flat road for the quality sessions where I want to hit effort/speed levels.
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Nov 2019
2:06pm, 5 Nov 2019
1,149 posts
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Shortcut Cam
I’m trusting my coach with this one. I’d be the first to say it doesn’t matter how you get the miles in on long runs and other coaches would agree. But I want to make his investment in me pay off.
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Nov 2019
2:11pm, 5 Nov 2019
9,397 posts
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larkim
I value consistency in intervals / tempos etc, so tend to run them on the same routes. Intervals I've got a road loop which is more or less flat, tempos my route falls or rises by about 20m every half mile or so which probably means I'm cheating a bit with some recovery every half mile, but it's not hilly.
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Nov 2019
2:19pm, 5 Nov 2019
33,055 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Completely understand Cam. If you are going with a coach, then absolutely, follow what they say. Same with a plan from a book, to be honest. Unless you are effectively knowledgeable enough to "coach yourself" then follow the advice you're given, defo. What's your target for next year Cam? Best of luck with it. G
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Nov 2019
2:29pm, 5 Nov 2019
200 posts
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riggsy99
With my long runs it depends on the type of run to how flat/hilly the run is. My marathon pace runs always have the MP part at Rother Valley which is about as flat as you can get around here with the run to/from RV making up the other miles. Also the added bonus of been the course for one of my marathons (the other been Boston UK which makes Rother Valley look flat).
I can see some advantage to a gently rolling course as it would change your running action and therefore alter the strain on your leg muscles and your feet.
Of course the 1:59 project has also shown that the amount of turns can have a big affect on your time and is why Berlin is quicker than London form the elites
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Nov 2019
2:48pm, 5 Nov 2019
1,150 posts
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Shortcut Cam
Cheers HappyG. Coach reckons he can get me in 3:10 shape but wants me to have an enjoyable sub 3:15. Suppose it’s a kind of train hard for an easy fight. Then from there we’ll put plans in place to start chipping minutes away in subsequent marathons if that’s how I feel.
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