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Oct 2017
8:57am, 17 Oct 2017
27,672 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Great blog Steve. Enjoyed reading that. Very well done on digging in and on the sub 3.15 and on the age category placing. Did you get a prize?  G
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Oct 2017
10:28am, 17 Oct 2017
25,101 posts
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SPR
I instinctively disagreed with the marathon can't be run on feel as if I can feel what easy feels like in training and you've done the training to understand what marathon pace feels like then surely it's possible, the watch in reality should just be confirming you've got it right.
I see SailorSteve ran without a watch on Sunday.
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Oct 2017
10:31am, 17 Oct 2017
13,800 posts
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Fenland (Fenners) Runner
LOL
What is easy?
Is easy running consistent day to day week to week?
Can you accurately judge the exact muscle recruitment by feel?
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Oct 2017
11:06am, 17 Oct 2017
61,730 posts
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Gobi
Spr - feel is dangerous the longer you go
Why run on feel when data is available?
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Oct 2017
11:10am, 17 Oct 2017
3,084 posts
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larkim
I'm sure running to feel can be done. But I'm equally sure that if my body was well prepared for a marathon I'm not sure that I could tell the difference between a 7:20 mile and a 7:10 mile in the first 5-7 miles or so with the sort of precision that might reap benefits later on. Others might be capable of this, and maybe its just lack of experience on my part, but that's below my sensitivity I think to judge MP to the nearest 10s.
Having said that, Steve was clearly aware of the markers around him (the delayed start compared to the pace group, the pace groups he ran through, the 3:15 group hunting him down and overtaking him) etc, so he's benefitted from others using watches even if he didn't use it himself - it wasn't completely in isolation. In days gone by with just wrist watches available, I'm sure plenty of runners had mechanisms for locking into good paces, whether that was from roadside mile markers against their watches etc.
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Oct 2017
11:12am, 17 Oct 2017
3,085 posts
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larkim
I'm with Gobi 100%, but I'm aware that's a personal preference thing. I like tech, I think it broadly helps more than it hinders. I don't think there's a valid argument which says it is "better" to run without a watch in a race you're looking to PB. But I can understand why people like to be freed from the watch if they feel it constrains the way they want to run. It just wouldn't be a choice I'd ever make!
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Oct 2017
11:20am, 17 Oct 2017
4,921 posts
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chunkywizard
When I said run on feel I should have added 'within the constraints of tightly controlled upper and lower boundaries' I will not go faster than 3:15 pace but if that feels too much to maintain, then I might go with 3:20 pace. I will not go out slower than 3:23 pace as I am in it for a PB and I don't believe I am going to negative split by much if at all. The other thing is RRR-CAZ is running and it would be good to run with him for company but he's going to be nearer 3:20 than 3:15 to start with, but he is a strong finisher and much more experienced than I am.
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Oct 2017
11:28am, 17 Oct 2017
61,732 posts
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Gobi
Feel with rules CW
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Oct 2017
1:24pm, 17 Oct 2017
25,102 posts
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SPR
Gobi/ Larkim/CW - Yeah I initially didn't say anything as given the longest I race is XC, it's not the same. I think my preference if going for 10 miles or longer would be to make sure I start right by checking the watch, but after that just use feel. How do you deal with undulating courses, which is really where I think feel is important?
FR - The point about it not being consistent is part of my point. I know what 5k effort feels like, but that's a different pace for the hilly road relays vs a flat track or if I'm tired, etc.
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Oct 2017
1:26pm, 17 Oct 2017
657 posts
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SailorSteve
I don’t believe my marathon experience permits me to make any generic assertions on this thread.
I can assert that I love running the way I do it though, and nothing that I have heard, read or observed persuades me that I could possibly enjoy it more with the addition of a data source. Quite the opposite in fact.
I believe that there are lessons to be learnt from any run with hindsight, with or without a watch. Obviously that knowledge is unavailable in real time but one builds it in to subsequent races/runs.
On the Larkim’s point about me vicariously using the pacer’s watch, I have heard enough excuses, based on blaming other people’s pacing, not to trust a pacer. I simply observed that a very shouty man seemed to be in control of his run. I have no proof that he was.
I may be naive but I think some days are “your day” and some are not. I’m motivated by the potentially reckless pursuit of “that day.”
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