Nov 2024
7:46am, 6 Nov 2024
70,801 posts
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LindsD
Feel hopeless. And @Fields fwiw, I found your last few posts really helpful in moving away from feeling awful to thinking in a more adult way about how to move on and understand Until you just couldn't resist putting the boot in to everyone on the thread. Cheers. Afaik no one here has a vote in this particular election and DaveA is right. |
Nov 2024
7:55am, 6 Nov 2024
9,966 posts
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simbil
Bigly Trouble - The Star headline calls it.
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Nov 2024
7:59am, 6 Nov 2024
22,353 posts
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Chrisull
Something that the Left in the US and Europe are failing to do, sadly. Labour won here by a landslide. And you can put in the ifs and buts, but they still did. Last time I looked it was results that count. Which again comes down to the economy. And we wonder why Starmer refused to do anything other than stay as conservative as possible. That is 100% the reason why. And that is why they will continue staying that course. And fields while I broadly agree with you, I disgree ib all the "calling the other side stupid", Harris didn't, they ran a tight campaign there was a late slip by Biden but there was no "basket of deplorables" or similar. She won the debate, they didn't have comedians on being explicitly racist to blacks and latinos, and it still didn't make any difference. The problem is even when we - the left - keep schtum - we are suspected of **thinking** it anyway. And the right always sticks together much better than the left in elections. The simple lessons are 1) economy and 2) to appeal to a country where only 40% are college educated, you need a leader perceived as strong. Anything else is flim flam. |
Nov 2024
8:02am, 6 Nov 2024
406 posts
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Ian5
Chrisull wrote: Something that the Left in the US and Europe are failing to do, sadly. Labour won here by a landslide. And you can put in the ifs and buts, but they still did. Last time I looked it was results that count. Which again comes down to the economy. And we wonder why Starmer refused to do anything other than stay as conservative as possible. That is 100% the reason why. And that is why they will continue staying that course. And fields while I broadly agree with you, I disgree ib all the "calling the other side stupid", Harris didn't, they ran a tight campaign there was a late slip by Biden but there was no "basket of deplorables" or similar. She won the debate, they didn't have comedians on being explicitly racist to blacks and latinos, and it still didn't make any difference. The problem is even when we - the left - keep schtum - we are suspected of **thinking** it anyway. And the right always sticks together much better than the left in elections. The simple lessons are 1) economy and 2) to appeal to a country where only 40% are college educated, you need a leader perceived as strong. Anything else is flim flam. Landslide? You do realise only 20% of the electorate voted Labour? That means 80% weren't convinced enough to vote Labour. How many in the UK are university educated? Yes as usual for disagreeing with the mob on here people will get called idiots etc but you all really need to meet real people and get out your echo chamber. |
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Nov 2024
8:04am, 6 Nov 2024
22,354 posts
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Chrisull
It also seems that sticking with Biden as long as they did has hurt the Democrats (although watch the videos of a 2016 era trump vs now, compared to a 2020 Biden vs now, and the difference is much greater between the former than the latter). But perception matters and it seems the campaign was lost before it started. As I've always said, election campaigns don;t change elections, voters have already made up their minds, very few elections has that not been true. Early in 2024 the Dems had lost, and they never convincingly recovered that ground.
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Nov 2024
8:07am, 6 Nov 2024
22,420 posts
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Gooner
Fields wrote: Yet again calling people idiots rather than attempting to tackle the economic system that leaves them seeking out someone proposing change. This thread and its centrist, neoliberal attitudes are the reason people like Trump win I am a person who lives at the sharp end of our own economic issues that are similar to the ones that are suggested to be some of the key concerns over there and have done for my entire life in one way or another. Yet I can still see that I would rather continue with those issues rather than have a convicted criminal with very obvious misogynistic and racist views in charge. So I will continue to call people who display idiotic behaviour, idiots. |
Nov 2024
8:07am, 6 Nov 2024
11,790 posts
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Fields
LindsD wrote: Feel hopeless. And @Fields fwiw, I found your last few posts really helpful in moving away from feeling awful to thinking in a more adult way about how to move on and understand Until you just couldn't resist putting the boot in to everyone on the thread. Cheers. Afaik no one here has a vote in this particular election and DaveA is right. Not quite everyone. Glad my posts were helpful in part. |
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Nov 2024
8:08am, 6 Nov 2024
22,355 posts
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Chrisull
Landslide? You do realise only 20% of the electorate voted Labour? Which is the flipside of the left's "only 17 million voted for Brexit" in a country of 60 million. Equally as wrong. What matters is results. Labour have 400+ seats. In a country where there are 5 major parties now, as in Europe, 20-30% is enough to rule a country. And here we've always said Trump was a possible winner, we've said it would be tight, we've said it would be down to the rust belt. |
Nov 2024
8:14am, 6 Nov 2024
6,955 posts
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Mark J 🇳🇿
My wife just summed it up nicely for me. Regardless of the politics, how on earth can anyone vote for a man that acts, behaves and has views like he does. He's a horrible person. She's right. It's not like he's a nice man, who you believe is trying to do the right thing by his country. He's a vile individual who doesn't give a flying f&*k about anyone except Donald J Trump. How can any sane person vote for that. |
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Nov 2024
8:15am, 6 Nov 2024
22,356 posts
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Chrisull
What will happen now, is the Dems will have to move to the right, there is no choice. Harris, like Kerry, is seen as too extreme. But even rightwards moving leaders suchas LBJ and Clinton can deliver meaningful change, which is what many on the left forget. JB is pointing out Blair, and likewise I will too. 2028 is in play for the Dems, for all the same reasons that 2024 was for Labour. 2016 didn't see the world end, Trump was unable to carry through many of his promises, and did surprisingly little. As for Ukraine, they have been losing for a quite a while, it's up to them what they decide to do, but I suspect ceding the Donbas and Crimea long term is what will happen anyway. |
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