19 Jul
3:09pm, 19 Jul 2024
22,703 posts
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rf_fozzy
MudMeanderer wrote: rf_fozzy wrote:paulcook wrote:For context / contrast, I believe the average person is stuck in traffic for 38 hours per year. Hmmm. that sounds suspiciously high. It again might be an unhelpful number. Even if calculated correctly. It sounds low to me. If you have a look at some of the research by Henry Grabar and Donald Shoup, at least across the US (and I'm not sure the UK will be markedly different) not much short of that long is spent searching for parking having arrived at their destination (despite the US historically having some insanely high parking minimums). US median average is *much* higher than UK IIRC though? |
19 Jul
3:09pm, 19 Jul 2024
21,976 posts
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Chrisull
Red card for fields means fozzy is off the bench and immediately stuck into larks for his poor parsing of statistics.
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19 Jul
3:11pm, 19 Jul 2024
22,704 posts
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rf_fozzy
larkim wrote: I suppose the point is, non-planned incidents on the motorway network every year will have much bigger impacts than the actual impact of the JSO M25 disruptions. And in those incidents, people will be equally or worse affected. And in some of them, there will be fault by the person who causes the incident (e.g. falling asleep at the wheel, badly maintaining the car, crashing whilst driving recklessly).The JSO incidents got national publicity and created (some) public outcry because they were deliberate. But they were, in fact, a relatively minor bit of traffic disruption in the context of the UK as a whole, or indeed in the context of the M25 over a year. This is whatterboutery though. We aren't talking about other disruptions. We are talking about the JSO protest/disruption that shut the M25. |
19 Jul
3:11pm, 19 Jul 2024
25,236 posts
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larkim
TBF I don't mind that. And I still think it is a statistic that has some validity, as the "man in the street" doesn't comprehend other averages very well. (e.g. I have more than the average number of arms for a British person) |
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19 Jul
3:12pm, 19 Jul 2024
22,705 posts
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rf_fozzy
Chrisull wrote: Red card for fields means fozzy is off the bench and immediately stuck into larks for his poor parsing of statistics. I've no idea what they are posting. All I see is lots of kittens. At times over the last couple of days, the thread has been flooded with them. And I will always challenge what I percieve to be sloppy thinking! As you well know. |
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19 Jul
3:13pm, 19 Jul 2024
22,706 posts
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rf_fozzy
larkim wrote: as the "man in the street" doesn't comprehend other averages very well. This is the problem. But then using those statistics that can be manipulated easily without key context is deliberately manipulative when you make an argument based upon them. Which is why I've been taking this to task for the last couple of pages in the first place. |
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19 Jul
3:16pm, 19 Jul 2024
21,978 posts
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Chrisull
I know, just couldn't resist a tenuous football pun. But it was funny that there's been a really heated argument, only just brought to a premature end, and it's the bad use of stats that's got you motivated.  Oooh and for another thread Pogacar has attacked. I did mean to ask you when we inevitably drift back back to US politics what you make of the polls differential between Dems being ahead in all the senate races, but Trump being ahead of Biden in all the same marginal states races and whether it was likely that would persist til election day. I argue that it wouldn't but there were some strong arguments made that it might. |
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19 Jul
3:17pm, 19 Jul 2024
25,237 posts
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larkim
rf_fozzy wrote: larkim wrote:I suppose the point is, non-planned incidents on the motorway network every year will have much bigger impacts than the actual impact of the JSO M25 disruptions. And in those incidents, people will be equally or worse affected. And in some of them, there will be fault by the person who causes the incident (e.g. falling asleep at the wheel, badly maintaining the car, crashing whilst driving recklessly).The JSO incidents got national publicity and created (some) public outcry because they were deliberate. But they were, in fact, a relatively minor bit of traffic disruption in the context of the UK as a whole, or indeed in the context of the M25 over a year. This is whatterboutery though. We aren't talking about other disruptions. We are talking about the JSO protest/disruption that shut the M25. Oh, 100%. However, surely it is fair to say that the protest could have been reported in the media as "minor disruption to the M25 took place today", because the data that they've supplied about the impact of it seems to suggest that, when placed within the context of the size and scale of disruptions in the UK to the motorway network. The nature of the reporting of it was at least in part influenced by the media's understanding of how the public at large instinctively (or were led to being) oppose(d) to JSO doing disruptive acts. |
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19 Jul
3:20pm, 19 Jul 2024
22,709 posts
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rf_fozzy
Chrisull wrote: I know, just couldn't resist a tenuous football pun. But it was funny that there's been a really heated argument, only just brought to a premature end, and it's the bad use of stats that's got you motivated. As I say, kittens stops me from feeling drawn in towards feeding. As for the US - I've not been paying much attention to it. My feelings are very much fatalistic from the moment Trump was the defacto nominee about a year ago. The probability suggests barrring a major issue, he's going to be re-elected and then the project 2025 lot will get their way. And it's going to be messy. |
19 Jul
3:20pm, 19 Jul 2024
5,950 posts
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paulcook
Therefore it's not whataboutery to the full argument. Most videos you see of people opposed to the protests (and some posts above) are "oh, but I'm going to be late", "ambulances are stuck", "I'm going to miss an appointment", etc, etc. There are a million different strands to argue about the protests. |
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