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Oct 2023
11:37am, 20 Oct 2023
23,896 posts
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richmac
Have to agree, can't see any shift in political will for it happening probably ever.
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Oct 2023
11:38am, 20 Oct 2023
15,649 posts
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jda
SPR gets it. I’m delighted by the collapse in the Tory vote of course. I would be even more delighted if Labour were to use their dominant position to implement a centre-left manifesto but am not holding my breath.
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Oct 2023
11:38am, 20 Oct 2023
31,105 posts
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Johnny Blaze
We would definitely see hard right MPs from an avowedly populist/white nationalist party getting elected oh that’s the Tories.
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Oct 2023
11:44am, 20 Oct 2023
15,651 posts
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jda
I’d far rather have a rump of far right extremists appropriate to their electoral support (maybe 5% give or take a bit) than have a party that not only includes but panders to them getting 60% of MPs on 40% of the vote.
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Oct 2023
11:45am, 20 Oct 2023
31,107 posts
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Johnny Blaze
We have had less freedom than we believed. That which we have enjoyed has been too dependent on the benevolence of our rulers. Our freedoms have remained their possession, rationed out to us as subjects rather than being our own inalienable possession as citizens. To make real the freedoms we once took for granted means for the first time to take them for ourselves. The time has come to demand political, civil and human rights in the United Kingdom. We call, therefore, for a new constitutional settlement which will:
Enshrine, by means of a Bill of Rights, such civil liberties as the right to peaceful assembly, to freedom of association, to freedom from discrimination, to freedom from detention without trial, to trial by jury, to privacy and to freedom of expression.
Subject Executive powers and prerogatives, by whomsoever exercised, to the rule of law.
Establish freedom of information and open government.
Create a fair electoral system of proportional representation.
Reform the Upper House to establish a democratic, non-hereditary Second Chamber.
Place the Executive under the power of a democratically renewed Parliament and all agencies of the state under the rule of law.
Ensure the independence of a reformed judiciary.
Provide legal remedies for all abuses of power by the state and by officials of central and local government.
Guarantee an equitable distribution of power between the nations of the United Kingdom and between local, regional and central government.
Draw up a written constitution anchored in the ideal of universal citizenship, that incorporates these reforms.
The inscription of laws does not guarantee their realisation. Only people themselves can ensure freedom, democracy and equality before the law. Nonetheless, such ends are far better demanded, and more effectively obtained and guarded, once they belong to everyone by inalienable right. Add your name to ours. sign the charter now!
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Oct 2023
11:47am, 20 Oct 2023
31,108 posts
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Johnny Blaze
Charter 88, of which I was a member “back in the day”.
I still believe in all this, but it’s a slow train coming.
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Oct 2023
2:31pm, 20 Oct 2023
20,792 posts
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Chrisull
On PR, I will hark back to JB's comments after the 2019 election that things can change very quickly in politics. Then we thought Boris was a shoo in for the next election. JB was right and instead the Tories stare at electoral annihilation down the barrel of a gun. Who saw that coming?
The current political weather makes PR unthinkable... BUT there are minor parties on both sides of the spectrum (such as Reform) who would benefit from it, and someone like Farage would too. It only takes a weird unholy alliance, and some sort of event that makes it desirable and massively beneficial for Labour or Tories to adopt. (A Tory electoral wipeout where they maintain 25-30% of the vote but only keep 50 seats , is that kind of scenario....) Or something we havent foreseen because it's too ridiculous to imagine... It won't go away.
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Oct 2023
3:15pm, 20 Oct 2023
14,685 posts
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Dave W
PR really does seem like the fairest way to run an election. If fringe parties get a seat or two in parliament then that really would be the “will of the people “.
A price worth paying for a system where everyones vote counts IMO.
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Oct 2023
3:19pm, 20 Oct 2023
15,655 posts
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jda
“PR” is of course a broad term covering a wide range of possible approaches but it’s notable that there is barely another country in the world that’s copied our centuries-old system.
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Oct 2023
3:26pm, 20 Oct 2023
3,488 posts
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paulcook
I think many (but not all) countries who use FPTP are ex British colonies so we probably just copy/pasted it rather than being copied.
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Fantasy General Election
Jul 2024