Aug 2023
2:22pm, 18 Aug 2023
21,755 posts
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larkim
Miscarriages of justice often happen for very specific reasons with specific personnel / circumstances. If we are to assume every conviction is flawed because we know Malkison's was I think we're on a very slippery path. We need to trust our fellow citizens as jurors to have heard the evidence appropriately, been guided effectively by the judge and then arrived at the correct decision based on what they have heard and what both sides have presented. Beyond reasonable doubt is a very high threshold, and the fact that they've returned specific verdicts of not guilty in some of the cases helps to at least paint a picture of a thorough and well thought through review and conclusion. The flaws with the Malkison case are as much about what happened post the jury's verdict and why the conviction stood for so long. |
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Aug 2023
2:22pm, 18 Aug 2023
21,756 posts
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larkim
(Sorry, Malkinson)
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Aug 2023
2:29pm, 18 Aug 2023
15,328 posts
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jda
I remember well the previous nurse thing where the misrepresentation of statistical evidence was egregious but this seems quite a lot more well founded than that one was (from what’s been reported).
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Aug 2023
2:37pm, 18 Aug 2023
15,329 posts
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jda
Sorry not a nurse, Sally Clarke was the one I was thinking of. In this case however concerns had been raised multiple times prior to several of the incidents. |
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Aug 2023
2:38pm, 18 Aug 2023
21,757 posts
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larkim
All my boys were born at that hospital in that unit, so it feels alarmingly close to home, though my boys were born before her time there. I honestly don't see an alternative to trusting the process. Her case couldn't be more different to Malkinson's in terms of publicity and scrutiny at this stage. |
Aug 2023
2:42pm, 18 Aug 2023
3,162 posts
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paulcook
Again this is circumstantial, her only defence witness was a plumber for a total of 25 minutes. But, yes, completely agree with that larkim. No legal system can be watertight, but you either trust the process or politicise to change the process. |
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Aug 2023
2:49pm, 18 Aug 2023
3,163 posts
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paulcook
I suspect there's still an awful lot more to come out about this story/case.
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Aug 2023
3:03pm, 18 Aug 2023
47,526 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Well, I hope it turns out to be a sound conviction, and not a very disturbed individual "blaming herself" for frailties in the NHS system, its processes and underfunding and understaffing.
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Aug 2023
3:29pm, 18 Aug 2023
20,633 posts
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Chrisull
I think her confession in her diary/notes (and that's what it is), was never convincingly retracted. That alone looked quite slam dunk. You couldn't really read it as notes of a self blaming individual on frailties in the system. Unlike cases with one or two deaths, the huge amount indicates foul play or very gross negligence. I'm not sure Shipman ever confessed.
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Aug 2023
3:33pm, 18 Aug 2023
21,759 posts
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larkim
It seems like statistically, either she was the guilty party, or there was another guilty party, or that unit was very poorly run with "excess" infant mortality. Tim Harford's "cautionary tales" episode on Shipman was an interesting angle on his case, btw. timharford.com |
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