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Feb 2020
6:27pm, 1 Feb 2020
2,857 posts
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ThorntonRunner
[Posted before I'd finished] the downsides, and everyone brexiters and remainers have a part to play in that and a voice.
Again we can overdo the 350m promise, but it was a key plank of the leave campaign, and aren't we supposed to hold politicians to their promises (compare with the destruction of the Lib Dems over breaking their promise on student loans)?
But we can't turn the clock back and expressing our views and hopes should be in terms of our current position and how to make the best progress, not on harking back to what might have been.
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Feb 2020
6:41pm, 1 Feb 2020
19,118 posts
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DeeGee
Stander, my former MP has been mouthing off about the EEC/EC/EU since 1975. He was on the losing side then, and he isn't the only one.
Leavers mouthing off for 40 odd years is how come you've ended up with your beloved Brexit.
So we'll keep mouthing off, thanks.
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Feb 2020
7:01pm, 1 Feb 2020
5,229 posts
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Cuddy
The comments about freedom and independence are baffling to me. I celebrate independence from Russia and I think people really need to check themselves before spouting such silliness with regards to EU.
I've spent the last 18 years in the UK and to be honest I just find my dual British nationality embarassing now. But for now I'll continue my job, which is to manage healthcare in London and pull every possible penny of NHS funding and investment to Londoners I can. Nurse staffing is below safe levels in several hospitals, EU nurses have left, hospitals are doing recruitment drives in India, Ghana, Philippines ++ to try to close the gaps. Half the jobs in my department are not funded past March. If some think I'll suddenly change my mind about Brexit and Brexiteers, they are complete muppets.
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Feb 2020
7:19pm, 1 Feb 2020
19,119 posts
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DeeGee
Are you a Baltic, Cuddy? Those are three nations that seem to me to be pretty warm to being full members of the EU, euro and Schengen, understand what being 'occupied by a dictatorship' actually means, and must be terribly baffled by the UK's assertions.
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Feb 2020
7:34pm, 1 Feb 2020
5,230 posts
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Cuddy
Finnish, so long history of oppression from the Swedish, war with Russia. And yes, I do find the whole thing baffling. I'm not saying that Finland's position and relationship with the EU is all fluffy pink clouds, of course there are some frustrations, but as almost everyone agrees, better in than out, more upsides than downsides and be one of the countries with a voice.
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Feb 2020
7:51pm, 1 Feb 2020
6,269 posts
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jda
Bought my Estonian domain.
Another step on the way towards relocating my company (though technically the domain isn't really a necessary step, but it's cheap and won't do us any harm to have a .ee email address and URL to give to people).
The idea that I should get behind some act of national self-harm, just because a majority of people voted for it, is baffling to me. Brexiters shit the bed, don't expect me to willingly lie in it. The fact that such a large proportion of them prove themselves to be thick beyond parody every time they open their mouths is just the icing on the cake.
Bet it feels really good to have destroyed opportunities, rights, and prospects for the younger generation, eh Stander? You must be feeling really pleased with yourself right now.
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Feb 2020
7:55pm, 1 Feb 2020
8,373 posts
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simbil
Yep, it's really weird how Leavers don't get this.
Leave won - great, own it and show us what you can do.
Don't expect us to start doing cartwheels down the street until and if you make things great.
Lets keep this civil though folks.
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Feb 2020
8:21pm, 1 Feb 2020
2,566 posts
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J2R
One of the more sinister corruptions of democracy which Brexit has brought about is the 'winner takes all' philosophy which has come to dominate. 52% of those who voted in the referendum voted Leave, 48% voted Remain. So the most extreme Leave position is adopted and Remain is completely ignored, its supporters told to shut up, accused of being traitors. This is not how democracy has worked before in this country, nor should it be. Disagreement is an inherent part of a healthy democracy. This, though, is proto-fascism.
While it might be working for the likes of Stander now, surely intelligent Leavers can see that this is not a healthy model going forward. If someone such as Corbyn were to come to power, would they be comfortable about the idea of him operating completely unrestrained, with opponents told to shut up and get behind what he is doing? I doubt it.
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Feb 2020
8:39pm, 1 Feb 2020
2,446 posts
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Fellrunning
Its seems to me that it's because, as opposed to being a policy that a government had in it's manifesto and was, at least partly, elected to office on the basis of Brexit was a product of a plebiscite. So the "Winners" felt an ownership of the result that they perhaps wouldn't have in a straight election. Hence they take any disagreement more personally.
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Feb 2020
8:42pm, 1 Feb 2020
9,501 posts
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rf_fozzy
Whilst the left/liberal position is not, by any stretch, immune to hypocrisy, there does seem to be a greater predisposition to it in some circles in the more authoritarian-right circles.
I took note of noted "libertarian" Rand Paul in the US using his position to name the whistleblower in the Trump impeachment case (the govt employee who reported the Trump quid pro quo phone conversation about trying to get his corrupt investigation in return for releasing aid).
This, as most people would admit is not healthy and it certainly isn't in the interests of "free speech" as the whistleblower has already been the subject of death threats, which will undoubtably increase now the name is the domain.
There is a reason why whistleblowers are protected. They have the free speech to report something they think is wrong without fear of reprocity.
Yet, as soon as something is said about Mr Paul and fellow conservatives that they don't like, they'll be crying and playing the victim card.
And this is why the WWYLGOI card is so grating. It's pure hypocrisy whilst simultaneously playing the victim.
I would have been happy with an open discussion on EU membership. Instead we got lies and fake promises (£350m/wk). So no, I'm not going to shut up.
Nor will I stop pointing out hypocrisy.
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