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Jan 2020
9:26am, 14 Jan 2020
6,108 posts
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jda
Um...it needs to be done today, if not sooner. Of course it's perfect to blame the EU for something the govt would never have considered anyway.
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Jan 2020
9:28am, 14 Jan 2020
6,109 posts
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jda
Yes Stander it happens more if you devalue the pound, especially in an industry that has to pay for fuel in dollars.
But it's probably something to do with diesel cars, like it was with Thomas Cook, Dyson, Barclays etc.
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Jan 2020
9:43am, 14 Jan 2020
9,984 posts
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larkim
I do have an issue with the concept of self-determination when the region (sic) has been part of the same country for centuries. I don't use region there with any intention to offend (though I accept it might), it's just that I find it very hard to identify the component parts of the UK as being anything other than regions, with the UK being the only country. (I have a long standing irritation with segmenting our international sporting representation into the home nations on an international stage, we should have a UK football team etc etc). The "countries" of Scotland and Wales exist in history, but surely not in the modern day? Simply because those who advocated independent countries in 1707 have their heirs in modern day politics doesn't mean that the country still exists, does it?
I would find it hard to argue if the majority in favour of independence was something like 70% of the voting population of Scotland, but much less than that and to me that strikes me as demonstrating that Scotland isn't a "people" that should accrue a right of self determination. There has to be a common mind, not just a majority, amongst the "people" that they are united in their belief that they should self determine. It seems to me that the voting population of Scotland is a long way away from those successful (and unsuccessful) referendums across the world where 90%+ votes have approved independence, in both former colonial states and regions such as Catalonia.
What do opinion polls suggest in Scotland is the position on the question "Should the population of Scotland have the right to determine it's own future in relation to the UK?"
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Jan 2020
9:53am, 14 Jan 2020
6,699 posts
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paul the builder
(^) I would assume overwhelming support for that question specifically lark. Like there was/is for the same question here in NI (as per the Good Friday Agreement, which was overwhelming approved).
I've occasionally thought the rest of the world must think that the UK are a bit dick-ish in the way we set up. "Treat us as one Uniited Kingdom". "Ah hang on, except for when we'd quite like to be thought of and treated as 4 different countries".
I can imagine that sort of privilege wouldn't easily be afforded to other countries by your average 'Brit', if they were to try it on... 
Maybe there are examples that are similar, and I'm missing them?
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Jan 2020
9:53am, 14 Jan 2020
6,110 posts
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jda
OK but that is just your ignorance as to what a country is. And you don't seem to realise that the composition of the UK changed substantially within the last 100 years (hint: Ireland).
There's no natural law that says countries can only get bigger by merger and never split, either.
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Jan 2020
9:54am, 14 Jan 2020
6,111 posts
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jda
(x-post, was replying to larkim)
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Jan 2020
10:02am, 14 Jan 2020
1,596 posts
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Surelynot
Does England exist as a country, larkim, or is it also a region?
I think most people in Scotland accept that it is the right of the people of Scotland to determine our political future. That would be to remain in or leave the Union.
What is the time limit on a political construct being in place when a simple majority to end that construct is no longer required? Is there a sliding scale or formula you would recommend? I'm curious.
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Jan 2020
10:03am, 14 Jan 2020
9,985 posts
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larkim
Ireland / NI is a different case (hence me not using that as an example - NI isn't a country by any definition in any event). Beyond physically non-conjoined countries such as Sint Maarten, Greenland etc, where else in the world are there "countries" which are akin to Scotland and Wales (Wales even moreso)?
I'm not for a minute suggesting that political boundaries as defined on 14th Jan 2020 need to persist into eternity. But that the UN concept of self determination (whilst lacking in any formal legal agreement in international law) does broadly require the people to think with one voice. If the resident population of Scotland were able to speak with one voice about a belief in their right to self determine (and cast that vote independent of a question about whether they should exercise that right), that does go quite some way to establishing a unanimity of voice that should be listened to, but if 20-30% of the population simply don't believe in self-determination for those living in the physical boundaries of Scotland that would severely weaken the case to be considered a "people" in international law.
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Jan 2020
10:09am, 14 Jan 2020
9,986 posts
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larkim
I would describe England as a region too Surelynot; though I perhaps wouldn't even go so far as to describe England as a unit that has any meaningful purpose anyway, it is little more than a collection of regions.
My country is the UK of GB & NI. I am not English, nor Scottish, Welsh or Northern Irish.
Whilst there is no word that really works, British is as close as I can get to an adjective which describes my nationality (accepting that in the current political arrangements for the UK, British is an imperfect word which potentially excludes NI etc - I've had a long issue with the use of "British Athletics" as the brand for UKA as it excludes NI and other UK areas).
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Jan 2020
10:13am, 14 Jan 2020
15,667 posts
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Chrisull
My nationality is best described as European. And now thanks to Brexit it will be harder to visit / see my family across the Channel. Gee thanks. I am a citizen of nowhere thanks to May.
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