Dec 2019
10:28pm, 22 Dec 2019
6,023 posts
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jda
There's no point, not yet. You can be basically pro-EU in outlook without actually aiming to join immediately. We have to see how it turns out - after all, there is a theoretical possibility that it will be pretty much ok.
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Dec 2019
10:53pm, 22 Dec 2019
15,639 posts
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Chrisull
Sadly true. Or there is the other possibility it's crap but the Tories bury that under the carpet and carry on saying it's true. I mean Trump has being saying similar about the wall being built in Colorado...
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Dec 2019
11:14pm, 22 Dec 2019
1,663 posts
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JRitchie
Interesting take Canute about the priority to call out disinformation and I fully agree with the sentiment, but at the same time I think we have (or maybe I’ll change that to we should have, as I need to read those references you gave) the mechanisms already in place to do that. Think Trump v. Washington Post and most other mainstream news that are highly respected. A lot of people however know these facts but say, well I’m gonna vote for the guy anyway. That sentiment goes right up to the top of the GOP as we’ve seen with impeachment. I think a lot of people tend to look for the messages they want to read and hear to affirm their own positions rather than seek to challenge their own views and consider the positions of others. One thing I feel I’ve been guilty of in this GE is only reading the twitter that makes me feel comfortable in my own views. In some respect this tread is actually a bit like that too If it was too right I wouldn’t participate. Facebook regulation may be good - but without destroying freedom of speech and setting us on a slope to be like China. However, like first past the post the government in power isn’t going to change something that helped them get to that power. Maybe I should actually join a political party and try to put these points in and become more engaged in this process. Maybe if a couple of million did the same it would get noticed. |
Dec 2019
11:55pm, 22 Dec 2019
1,977 posts
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Canute
Yes JRitchie, I agree that we tend to choose the on-line bubble that fits our prior beliefs/feelings. But that bubble is not impervious. There is very good evidence that opinions do change. The Machiavellian art of changing opinions is targeting your message in a well-tailored manner to ensure that the recipient receives your message in a from that fits his/her predilections. Once you have got the ball rolling fairly well, blanket coverage reinforces the story. There was a tendency among some remainers to blame the ‘obtuse’ opinions of poorly educated Brexiteers on xenophobia. That is at best only a small part of the story. When talking to some of these individuals I have been intrigued to find that they come up with surprising ‘facts’ that I had never heard of. They are neither uninformed nor illogical. But they get their ‘facts’ from different sources than I get my ‘facts’ from. In the case of Trump’s base, they accept that he lies but still perceive him as honest because ‘he says what he thinks’. This attitude flourishes in an environment where expert opinion has been portrayed as untrustworthy. As for Republican congressmen/women, I am afraid that I can only conclude that some are explicitly corrupt while in the case of many others, their critical faculties have been corrupted by power. |
Dec 2019
9:50am, 23 Dec 2019
8,328 posts
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simbil
Politico newsletter well worth a read today with an interview shining a light on bojos problems with trade plans politico.eu Remind me how much services trade we do with the EU again? |
Dec 2019
10:20am, 23 Dec 2019
23,011 posts
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Johnny Blaze
Country: Corbyn was the problem. Labour activists: Corbyn was the answer. I can see where the problem lies here... |
Dec 2019
3:46pm, 23 Dec 2019
9,338 posts
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rf_fozzy
We are in danger of mixing up policies and person again on here. I've said it previously, for all this talk of "centreism," if you don't offer younger votes some policies instead of just pandering to pensioners, the country will not move forwards. There's far too much focus on pensioners. Additionally I point out again, how many seats did the "centreist" Lib Dems win..... |
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Dec 2019
3:49pm, 23 Dec 2019
9,339 posts
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rf_fozzy
And here, from Paul Johnson from the IFS are some stats: thetimes.co.uk "Why so many are feeling worse off" And back to the bootstraps argument being proposed on here the other day: "58% of households in poverty contain someone who is in work" And some more stats from the IFS: twitter.com "one third of working age adults live in households entitled to Universal Credit 43% of adults don't pay income tax 129% - that's how much more generous basic benefits for pensioners are than for non-pensioners. Gap was 30% in 1990" |
Dec 2019
4:01pm, 23 Dec 2019
25,068 posts
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Wriggling Snake
Yes, but could it be because a larger proportion of older people vote?
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Dec 2019
4:20pm, 23 Dec 2019
6,026 posts
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jda
Not specifically just a larger proportion, but as a bloc obsessed with brexit and completely oblivious to any harm they may cause to their own children and grandchildren.
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