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Nov 2019
9:37am, 26 Nov 2019
5,847 posts
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jda
Yeah it's all part of a global zionist conspiracy to bring down the labour party...oops.
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Nov 2019
9:54am, 26 Nov 2019
9,572 posts
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larkim
Exactly. For a party which ought to pride itself on inclusion and faith / race / ethniticy etc blindness, it's inability to see that if Jewish members of the party feel it is being anti-semitic, then it has a problem with anti-semitism.
It's no different to any other form of discriminiation - the people you listen to are the ones being discriminated against, not the massed ranks of people who deny it is happening. Could be a tricky 48 hours or so for Corbyn to put this one to bed.
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Nov 2019
10:02am, 26 Nov 2019
35,312 posts
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Nellers
There certainly is an issue with Anti-Semitism within the Labour party and I do think it's doing a poor job of convincing the world at large, and Jewish members/potential supporters in particular, that it is doing enough to combat it. I think the Labour party is on a hiding to nothing here at present though.
Since Corbyn has been party leader there has been a drop in anti-Semitism in the party and an increase in the number of disciplinary actions addressing anti-Semitism. A recent independent study showed that levels of anti-Semitism are lower in the Labour party than in the UK population as a whole, whereas in the Tory party they are higher.
Perception is reality, though. As long as the narrative that the press push is that it's a Labour Party problem, not a societal problem, Jewish members and supporter/potential supporters, are going to feel threatened and unsafe and will lack confidence in the leadership.
This could well be the issue that nails a majority for the Tories.
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Nov 2019
10:06am, 26 Nov 2019
5,848 posts
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jda
However it is a difficult one in principle because the state of Israel is intrinsically religious which makes it challenging to criticise the state as distinct from the religion. I think the idea that Jewish people in the UK have reason to fear a Corbyn govt as ridiculous hyperbole, but a lot of them may not be particularly thrilled at what it means for the UK's approach towards Israel.
The increasingly widespread racial intolerance in the UK is predominantly being exacerbated by one side in particular, and it's not the left.
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Nov 2019
10:08am, 26 Nov 2019
24,753 posts
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Wriggling Snake
I think macca has got it wrong. This election could be very local indeed. My constituency voted remain by 52 to 48. MP voted leave consistently.
Con majority of only 5000 over LD. Labour vote only 9000...ripe for an LD win.
However..very low unemployment, very high levels of older people, low levels of younger people...so I don't see LD winning and Labour will not win full stop, if there is some move to labour it will ensure a tory win.
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Nov 2019
10:10am, 26 Nov 2019
24,754 posts
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Wriggling Snake
Also Chrisull has it right that the labour vote is holding up overall but that is not the tory target..they are going for the leave seats in the north of wales and that may well work...2 or 3 seats will do.
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Nov 2019
10:14am, 26 Nov 2019
33,373 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
That's right, it's always struck me that it's mostly very poor communication. A high proportion of leadership and rank and file of labour membership are anti the political policies of the country of Israel. As are many rational-minded people (! imho!) That has nothing to do with the religion of Judaism. I get that the country of Israel is intrinsically linked with Judaism, of course. But all you have to do is *every* time you say "We believe the government of the country of Israel is doing this wrong thing..." is to never use the words: Jew, Jewish, Judaism, Semites or even Zion, Zionism etc. Just stick to the political facts.
If you do stray into "Jewish people think..." or any other such language, then by confusing the religion and the country / politicians, I think you are at risk of insulting the religion, the religious community or even of being anti-Semitic.
Care in language is important. Especially if you are a politician!  G
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Nov 2019
10:18am, 26 Nov 2019
23,051 posts
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fetcheveryone
Unless you're Boris, in which case you can say "new hospital" when all you mean is "upgraded hospital".
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Nov 2019
10:22am, 26 Nov 2019
29,699 posts
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SPR
Or 50k new nurses when you really mean 31k.
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Nov 2019
10:24am, 26 Nov 2019
9,574 posts
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larkim
I must read up on the timeline of the anti-semitism issues in the Labour party at some point. Was it triggered (or festering) during Milliband's leadership?
I share the same concerns about the state of Israel that HG alludes to, and recognise that it's a fraught area to criticise a state that is so closely aligned with an ethnoreligious group that was so abhorrently persecuted and subjected to genocide in recent history.
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