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Aug 2019
6:36pm, 15 Aug 2019
2,175 posts
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J2R
Not sure the Lib Dems' raison d'etre disappears with a referendum, to be honest. Both main parties have moved so far to the edges of the political spectrum that there should be a worthwhile place for a moderate, centrist party, even without the Brexit issue.
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Aug 2019
6:38pm, 15 Aug 2019
23,633 posts
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Wriggling Snake
I don't think Corbyn wants to crash out.
But he wants to leave, always has done, despite his measly words early in the referendum.
It has a cat in hells chance of working, like the talks with May.
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Aug 2019
7:58pm, 15 Aug 2019
4,792 posts
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BanjoBax
I was a Labour member in the 80s, they're nowhere near as left wing now as then, suggesting they're a good way from the edge of the spectrum. I'd also suggest the Tories have been pushing their edge out for decades now - I am biased of course.
Surely nobody has an electoral mandate at the minute, that's rather the point of the mess we're in.
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Aug 2019
8:07pm, 15 Aug 2019
10,939 posts
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Cerrertonia
Chrisull, just picking up from a point this morning. I don't think Pete North is a rabid no-dealer. He is indeed a rabid Brexiteer and was one of the main people involved in the leave campaign for many years, but he was very firmly in the EFTA/stay in the single market at all costs camp. He's posted numerous times that he thinks it would be better to stay in the EU than to leave without a deal and has written in excruciating detail about what a disaster he thinks leaving without a deal would be.
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Aug 2019
8:15pm, 15 Aug 2019
2,176 posts
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J2R
Cerrertonia, so why is he coming out in favour of leaving without a deal now? What's changed?
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Aug 2019
8:22pm, 15 Aug 2019
10,940 posts
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Cerrertonia
Well, given his views on climate change, I don't take anything he says seriously, but he seems to have descended into full-on nihilism - if we're going to destroy the economy, political system and break up the UK, let's do it properly kind of thing.
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Aug 2019
8:30pm, 15 Aug 2019
4,947 posts
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jda
The idea of having a ref under a caretaker govt sounds nice in theory but is surely impracticable. It would require the coalition to hold together for months (maybe a year) and the country needs governance and policy in the meantime. Corbyn's plan isn't great but we are not in the domain of great solutions, we are in the domain of looking for least shit options and his plan is a workable way forward that staves off the worst outcomes for the foreseeable future.
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Aug 2019
8:38pm, 15 Aug 2019
4,948 posts
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jda
And BTW I do agree with what J2R said on the last page. The whole clusterfuck was obviously shit from the outset but I've been regularly disappointed by how much more shit everyone has made things at just about every opportunity, to a far greater extent than I had considered possible.
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Aug 2019
11:45pm, 15 Aug 2019
6,085 posts
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postieboy
I see Jo Swinson is open to having discussions with Jeremy Corbyn, it will be interesting to see where they lead. Even if the Lib Dems are prepared to hold their noses for short while to prevent a no deal Brexit, Swinson is right to be sceptical about a Corbyn lead coalition getting enough support. He can't get his own MP's onside let alone attracting others.
It could come down to a no deal Brexit versus a brief Corbyn lead government. Surely a no brainer, or is Corbyn hated that much?
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Aug 2019
9:24am, 16 Aug 2019
2,177 posts
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J2R
I don't think it's a case of Corbyn being hated so much that's the issue, at least not from the Lib Dems' point of view. There's been a lot of slagging off of Jo Swinson for categorically ruling out support for a Corbyn-led coalition, along the lines that the Lib Dems would prefer a No Deal Brexit to having Corbyn as PM. But this is, I believe, getting it completely wrong. There is literally no point putting forward someone to lead a caretaker government who would not have the confidence of the house, and Corbyn is just that person. Practically anyone else might mean enough Conservatives hold their noses and back him or her for this one, short task, but they're not going to do that with Corbyn, Swinson knows that - and Corbyn knows that. So the whole thing would be doomed from the outset.
What needs to happen is for the other parties to get together with Labour and see if they can agree on a more acceptable interim figure. The trouble is I suspect Corbyn's ego wouldn't allow this, even if he did actually want to prevent the crash-out (which I doubt). I love the idea of a Harriet Harman / Ken Clarke double act, but I can't see it getting off the ground.
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Fantasy General Election
Jul 2024