Oct 2015
4:05pm, 15 Oct 2015
214 posts
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Shadowless Formless Legs
"It was a suggestion. Not a complete solution. And yes there are problems to be solved." Or to put it another way - it wouldn't work. |
Oct 2015
4:06pm, 15 Oct 2015
7,332 posts
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rf_fozzy
No...it *might* work. I'm arguing that you don't have to force kids into decisions/exams/selection at the age of 11 that will completely self-select their future. |
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Oct 2015
4:07pm, 15 Oct 2015
215 posts
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Shadowless Formless Legs
"Yes, that's the problem. It would be the same with Grammar Schools." - no it absolutely wouldn't be the same. Entry for grammar schools is based on passing the entrance exam, not living in a certain area.
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Oct 2015
4:14pm, 15 Oct 2015
16,738 posts
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DeeGee
Well, SFL, it does, a bit. You have to live in Kent, Buckinghamshire or Lincolnshire  But you can live in any part of those counties and get in. Because it's based on ability and the council buses you there. For free. In fact, it's a positive disadvantage to live near them, as you don't get free transport. |
Oct 2015
4:15pm, 15 Oct 2015
2,989 posts
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Jono.
I have to say we are *lucky* on the Wirral - normally if you go to a catholic primary school, you go to St Mary's - no worrying about choice, or catchment areas. I'm not arguing against providing the best educational facilities for kids, and as DeeGee has just pointed out a good comp will become much sort after. its what we can do for the poorer performing schools and that questions not been answered since the 1970's. If you come from a working class background, you may struggle, you will have to work harder, to get somewhere - wherever that may be in life - fact. However over the past 30 years, society, to a large extent has become more equal, you see Doctors now, with accents - meet young people who manage to get on. However we are a long way from equality and since the recession, social mobility seems to have been pushed back. young people are now faced with problems i never faced, how to afford a mortgage - buying a house is now out of reach of most working class people, the repaying of student loans - a huge debt for a young person to repay. social inequality over the next few years will grow. |
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Oct 2015
4:17pm, 15 Oct 2015
7,333 posts
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rf_fozzy
Ok, so you take an entrance exam to get into school. Well off parents pay for tutors etc to coach their kids to get into that school. So little Johnny goes in with a huge advantage. Or there's Alex who struggles with Maths and Physics, but when it comes to languages is a complete natural. Or Sally who's terrible at English but has the intution to be a brilliant engineer Or Max who gets incredibly nervous in exams and goes completely blank Or Amanda who's Mum sadly dies 2 weeks before the exams for the school and so does very badly. Or Tina and Dave who are both going to be Olympic athletes, but they're not great academically. And there are all the same arguments about inequality that can be made in this area - the worse off economically you will be, the less likely to do well in an entrance exam you will be, so it's again self-selecting. These are the problems with your overly simplistic solution that Grammar Schools will solve the whole problem. They won't. All it will do is define a Child's entire future based on one exam at the age of 11. And that is wrong. I think we all know children who are at completely different stages of development at the age of 11. The same, of course, goes for Children at the age of 14/15, but at least they've had more time to get there and are more capable of making coherent decisions about their future. |
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Oct 2015
4:21pm, 15 Oct 2015
7,334 posts
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rf_fozzy
"However over the past 30 years, society, to a large extent has become more equal," Wrong. Inequality has risen over the past 30 years and is continuing to do so (and possibly at a faster rate). equalitytrust.org.uk |
Oct 2015
4:26pm, 15 Oct 2015
654 posts
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Cheg
We can't have complete equality. You make me want to put my head through a wall Fozzy. Yes money will buy tutors. Yes people get nervous in exams, poor old Max. O if you only saw him in class he is fabulous and his writing is heavenly. Amanda's Mum it's a tragedy, what's your solution? Give her an A because you know she's a good egg? Write an exam especially for her which she can take whenever she is over the emotional turmoil? Everyone is an individual, everyone's circumstances are different. Wealth, parents, friends, school, luck, genetics all factor into what makes someone a success or happy or whatever it is that you want to measure us by. We cannot create this mythical level playing field. Tutors improve grades, parents who take an interest improve grades, going out and socialising with friends lowers grades, spending time watching TV unless it's GCSE bitesize hampers grades. But parents, children, humans make decisions all the time and that's their right to do so. |
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Oct 2015
4:29pm, 15 Oct 2015
2,991 posts
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Jono.
what I was trying to say fozzy is that, for example, Doctors now don't sound posh - so you would assume that people from come into medicine from a wider catchment area. simplistic, I know - in terms of house buying, that was easier - it is becoming less easier therefore there will be more inequality. |
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Oct 2015
4:29pm, 15 Oct 2015
7,335 posts
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rf_fozzy
"We can't have complete equality" No, but we can at least try. Rather than give up and say fuck 'em. |
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