Polarized training

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Jun 2023
1:07pm, 13 Jun 2023
3,067 posts
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Steve NordRunner
Feel is fine until it comes to supernormal stimuli such as burgers and soft drinks :)
Jun 2023
6:51pm, 13 Jun 2023
2,782 posts
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Bowman 🇸🇪
Thanks Canute, Interesting as always!
Yes feel is important, and I really like other input as well to weigh effort, HR and pace to the feeling/sensation.
Anyway, a warm run today was fine HR/pace wise, second run a bit warmer and a bit worse, so I went slower with a higher HR, but at a ok effort.
Jun 2023
7:21pm, 14 Jun 2023
2,259 posts
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Brunski
I’m better at judging the effort of a run than the pace I’m running at.

So I could go for a run at say 7:20 per mile and 118 HR and I could guess the HR to within a couple beats but wouldn’t be able to guess the pace to within 20 secs per mile.

Bit like SPR if you’re tuned in to your effort and can do similar mileage to before in the heat but at a slightly higher HR then maybe do that for a bit.
Jun 2023
6:54am, 15 Jun 2023
2,791 posts
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Bowman 🇸🇪
Yes thats what im trying for a while now Brunski. And i'm also in between "training blocks" now, so i'm going a bit on what i feel for the day.

Mixing it up is always good too.
Sep 2023
4:08pm, 6 Sep 2023
3,383 posts
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Lesley C
Hello - I am attempting to adapt to polarised training. I have been running similar paces (between 9.30 and 10 m/m for ages), with intervals (roughly 8 m/m depending on duration) and easy runs (10.5 m/m) added in. My HR always seems to be about 155 bpm in my threshold range even for 'easy' runs. Max HR goes up to about 177/178. Since I had Covid last November I have noticed that most of my runs my HR is averaging 155 and I find even small hills tough, or an undulation that I would never have called much of a hill before.

My typical week is usually a speed session with my club on a Tuesday (intervals vary each week) and an easier run on a Thursday, long run on a Saturday, away to add a short easy run on a Sunday and try to get two strength and cross training sessions (weights at home and rowing machine). My cross sessions are always low intensity. Thursday runs and Cross sessions are all early in the morning (I eat first) as I have to work around my job and my 4 year old.

Doing some calculations I should be running about 141 bpm looking at my max HR (should be 181 and I never get that), resting HR at about 50.

I started the polarised training last week and did an easy run on Friday (Thursday was a no go), and Saturday 11 miles, both were done with an average HR of around 145 bpm. Where I live is pretty hilly so hard to find flat routes. I did an interval session last night and kept my WU and CD very easy with walking recoveries in between reps. My paces for each session are around 11 m/m, which is dead slow (and felt like that) and I felt so bad for everyone having to wait for me at the club session (I was leading so they had to).

During my long run any undulation that I came across I had to walk to avoid the HR shooting up, even though I wanted to run them. It took me well over two hours to do the 11 miles (the heat didn't help either).

I do have lots of questions so I am hoping some of you will be able to help.

- Should I go by time or mileage for working out the 80/20?
- Include cross training time in there too?
- Should I stick with perceived effort or HR?
- When it comes to hills/undulations on easy runs should I walk or ease off the pace a bit? My HR does rise quickly even on small inclines. Will this decrease what hill fitness I have?
- My running form seems so much different running much slower than I am used to, will this affect it over time?
- When doing intervals should I run very easy during during the WU and CD or run normally? Would you class the whole workout as hard effort? Also walk or run the recoveries?

Thank you for reading, apologies for the essay of a post.
Sep 2023
6:43pm, 6 Sep 2023
2,125 posts
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auburnette
Re hot weather - I run to feel with half an eye on HR. In hot weather I find my HR is slightly raised for the same perceived effort but pace takes a big hit. I run the same distance, it just takes longer.

The only time I run less miles and focus on time instead is in extremely hilly terrain (like when the only running available is literal mountains) and that's because I feel the wear and tear much more from that terrain.

Lesley C I am only a casual follower of polarised training but I would walk up the hills if there is a risk your HR goes into your threshold range for more than a minute or so. I think it makes sense to consider what the purpose of the run is - an easy run is developing the aerobic system at a low wear and tear 'cost' to the body. If the run is too difficult overall then the wear and tear cost increases, risk of injury goes up and the training is harder than it needs to be for ultimately the same outcome (training your aerobic system to be efficient, which can happen at a lower intensity)

Obviously a hard tempo session or an interval session does increase the wear and tear but as I understand it those sort of sessions are training different physiological responses and you deploy them more sparingly.
J2R
Sep 2023
10:35am, 7 Sep 2023
4,733 posts
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J2R
Lesley C, I think we're often in danger of over-complicating this issue, by having set paces in mind, for example, or even set intensity levels. I have long ago come to the conclusion that 'easy' can be a wide range of paces, and you will not harm your training one jot by running more slowly at times, where you might if you push into the grey zone, above your first ventilatory threshold (I say harm, but I really mean put more stresses on the body for no extra aerobic fitness gain).

So if you're wondering about whether the pace you're running is easy enough, ease off a little bit until you're certain it is. This applies to hot weather, hills, whatever. Just keep it easy for yourself, forget absolute pace. I'm coming back from a heart attack so I'm a bit atypical at the moment, but I have been doing the vast majority of my easy running at 9:30 mins/mile and slower, yet I was still able to do 18:38 in a 5K a couple of weeks ago, because I do the small amounts of fast stuff as well.
Sep 2023
11:15am, 7 Sep 2023
3,326 posts
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Steve NordRunner
As a general indication I simply keep an eye on my heart rate distribution over the last 8 weeks, that it is at least bimodal, and that the top five bars add up to about 20%.
Sep 2023
11:16am, 7 Sep 2023
3,327 posts
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Steve NordRunner
I should say that's one of the graph settings available on the Training page fetcheveryone.com/training-home.php
Sep 2023
12:12pm, 7 Sep 2023
2,951 posts
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Bowman 🇸🇪
I also like this one Lesley C, it's been a while since i checked that one, and i have to better myself i see :)
fetcheveryone.com/training-analysis-heartrate.php

Just set your HR Zones where you want them.
fetcheveryone.com/user-settings-heartrate.php

About This Thread

Maintained by Canute
Polarised training is a form of training that places emphasis on the two extremes of intensity. There is a large amount of low intensity training (comfortably below lactate threshold) and an appreciable minority of high intensity training (above LT).

Polarised training does also include some training near lactate threshold, but the amount of threshold training is modest, in contrast to the relatively high proportion of threshold running that is popular among some recreational runners.

Polarised training is not new. It has been used for many years by many elites and some recreational runners. However, it has attracted great interest in recent years for two reasons.

First, detailed reviews of the training of many elite endurance athletes confirms that they employ a polarised approach (typically 80% low intensity, 10% threshold and 10% high intensity. )

Secondly, several scientific studies have demonstrated that for well trained athletes who have reached a plateau of performance, polarised training produces greater gains in fitness and performance, than other forms of training such as threshold training on the one hand, or high volume, low intensity training on the other.

Much of the this evidence was reviewed by Stephen Seiler in a lecture delivered in Paris in 2013 .
vimeo.com

In case you cannot access that lecture by Seiler in 2013, here is a link to his more recent TED talk.

ted.com
This has less technical detail than his 2013 talk, but is nonetheless a very good introduction to the topic. It should be noted that from the historical perspective, Seiler shows a US bias.

Here is another useful video by Stephen Seiler in which he discusses the question of the optimum intensity and duration of low intensity sessions. Although the answer ‘depends on circumstances’ he proposes that a low intensity session should be long enough to reach the point where there are detectable indications of rising stress (either the beginning of upwards drift of HR or increased in perceived effort). If longer than this, there is increasing risk of damaging effects. A session shorter than this might not be enough to produce enough stress to achieve a useful training effect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GXc474Hu5U


The coach who probably deserves the greatest credit for emphasis on the value of low intensity training was Arthur Lydiard, who coached some of the great New Zealanders in the 1960's and Scandinavians in the 1970’s. One of his catch-phrases was 'train, don't strain'. However Lydiard never made it really clear what he meant by ‘quarter effort’. I have discussed Lydiard’s ideas on several occasions on my Wordpress blog. For example: canute1.wordpress.com

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