Polarized training

1 lurker | 91 watchers
Oct 2021
1:06pm, 28 Oct 2021
1,219 posts
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Big_G
I was wrong above as it wasn't Fitzgerald who said that, and probably what I am about to say will diminish any impact as it was actually Maffetone (I know many don't subscribe to Maffetone, but for me his HR formula falls in line with Fitzgerald's zones). Anyway, for completeness, this is what he said.
Oct 2021
1:12pm, 28 Oct 2021
368 posts
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Bowman
So today i tried to count my steps whilst breathing. I kinda thought i was between 4 and 6, more 6 in the beginning and 5ish in the end of an slow HM.

Then i looked at the data and cadens and breathing average 161 steps per minute and average 34 breaths/min is... 4,73 steps every breath :)
It was probably my easiest 20ish km ever. It was about 5:32/km avarage HR 153, and most of the way i tried not to increase the speed.
so i guess im on to something here. :)
jda
Oct 2021
1:28pm, 28 Oct 2021
11,034 posts
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jda
Looks good. One thing I would suggest is trying to raise your cadence a bit, it certainly helped me a lot. Much less fatigue and more efficient running, even when doing steady work. I try to aim at 180 or even 184 on level ground (less up hills) but you don't need to do it all at once. You also get more breaths per minute as a bonus :-)
Oct 2021
1:47pm, 28 Oct 2021
369 posts
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Bowman
Yes i have always been a little low on cadence, one time i rushed that and got stress fractures in tibia, several years ago, probably cus i also suddenly ran on my toes as well, from a previous heel strike stride more or less.
I also am short with short legs, maybe that hinders me as well a little bit? cus it feels like i have pretty fast cadence compared to what i had before. And i feel kinda fast cadenced :) well i have to look in to that. Thanks.
Oct 2021
1:50pm, 28 Oct 2021
75,036 posts
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Gobi
I don't say much in here or anywhere outside of about 2 threads but I do read what you all write.

I do find your many of yours views interesting.

JDA - you will climb better if you shorten the stride and keep the cadence up when going up hill.

Ran Cannock Chase parkrun at the weekend which is rolling avg cad 201 with a 223 peak.
Oct 2021
2:18pm, 28 Oct 2021
370 posts
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Bowman
Maybe not the right thread for this.
But, cadence, necessary or not?
And if so, how do you think when trying to up the frequency?
SPR
Oct 2021
2:29pm, 28 Oct 2021
35,553 posts
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SPR
Personally I'm quite happy with knowing my cadence will rise as my speed does and I don't think there's any need to aim for a specific number at all speeds.
Oct 2021
2:44pm, 28 Oct 2021
75,042 posts
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Gobi
SPR - agree with that but there is value around it being fast enough at slower speeds not to make running laboured

On a good day my cadence goes up and so does my length of stride , on a bad back day my stride length is shorter and cadence tries hard to cover it.

Bowman - I don't really think about it I'm just aware if I labour
Oct 2021
2:47pm, 28 Oct 2021
15,911 posts
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larkim
When I run faster, I have a higher cadence. It just happens. Maintaining or increasing cadence on an incline though is something I can consciously make myself do though.

Though my son has been advised by a physio to try to increase cadence as an injury prevention measure, which he finds very difficult to achieve.
Oct 2021
2:54pm, 28 Oct 2021
1,914 posts
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Brunski
jda helped get me running at a higher cadence, I was probably just under 170 steps per minute on easier runs but got that up to around 180 as standard, and higher on faster efforts.

Agree with Gobi that short quick steps are efficient on the steep uphills.

When I'm fit my go to run is an hour at 70%max HR (~65%WHR), with cadence at 180 steps per minute and just reviewing the Beats per mile afterwards to see how my aerobic efficiency is progressing.

About This Thread

Maintained by Canute
Polarised training is a form of training that places emphasis on the two extremes of intensity. There is a large amount of low intensity training (comfortably below lactate threshold) and an appreciable minority of high intensity training (above LT).

Polarised training does also include some training near lactate threshold, but the amount of threshold training is modest, in contrast to the relatively high proportion of threshold running that is popular among some recreational runners.

Polarised training is not new. It has been used for many years by many elites and some recreational runners. However, it has attracted great interest in recent years for two reasons.

First, detailed reviews of the training of many elite endurance athletes confirms that they employ a polarised approach (typically 80% low intensity, 10% threshold and 10% high intensity. )

Secondly, several scientific studies have demonstrated that for well trained athletes who have reached a plateau of performance, polarised training produces greater gains in fitness and performance, than other forms of training such as threshold training on the one hand, or high volume, low intensity training on the other.

Much of the this evidence was reviewed by Stephen Seiler in a lecture delivered in Paris in 2013 .
vimeo.com

In case you cannot access that lecture by Seiler in 2013, here is a link to his more recent TED talk.

ted.com
This has less technical detail than his 2013 talk, but is nonetheless a very good introduction to the topic. It should be noted that from the historical perspective, Seiler shows a US bias.

Here is another useful video by Stephen Seiler in which he discusses the question of the optimum intensity and duration of low intensity sessions. Although the answer ‘depends on circumstances’ he proposes that a low intensity session should be long enough to reach the point where there are detectable indications of rising stress (either the beginning of upwards drift of HR or increased in perceived effort). If longer than this, there is increasing risk of damaging effects. A session shorter than this might not be enough to produce enough stress to achieve a useful training effect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GXc474Hu5U


The coach who probably deserves the greatest credit for emphasis on the value of low intensity training was Arthur Lydiard, who coached some of the great New Zealanders in the 1960's and Scandinavians in the 1970’s. One of his catch-phrases was 'train, don't strain'. However Lydiard never made it really clear what he meant by ‘quarter effort’. I have discussed Lydiard’s ideas on several occasions on my Wordpress blog. For example: canute1.wordpress.com

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