Polarized training

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Oct 2021
11:21am, 29 Oct 2021
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Gobi
Nobody should run on their toes, midfoot is what you want.
Oct 2021
11:41am, 29 Oct 2021
15,917 posts
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larkim
Yep, that all matches my understanding, even though I give no thought to it when actually running. All I actually do in training is work on either endurance or speed, and combinations therein.

I never think about form, cadence, arm carriage, foot position, foot strike etc etc. I'm not advocating that as a principle (as I'm well known (!) for under-investing in my running potential) as I'm sure there are gains to be made by some / many (maybe even me) by making "improvements", but I'm just not inclined to go down that path. Doesn't stop me being mildly interested in the concepts though!
Oct 2021
12:04pm, 29 Oct 2021
75,051 posts
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Gobi
Larks

I'd say you are more interested in the concepts than the training. Whereas I get frustrated by where the chat goes sometimes ,and would rather be out training.

That said I'm an open minded coach so like to read.
Oct 2021
12:14pm, 29 Oct 2021
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Bowman
@ gobi & larkim, i just exaggerated a bit, i don’t think I’m fat either, kind of muscular for a 43year old actually.
But I’m not thin like some runners.
ok great about the midfoot, that’s where I feel comfortable.

I’m all for what’s ok for your self, but I’m also interesting in improving some things, and when I seem to have a really slow cadence, maybe its something there.
I like to questioning everything.
SPR
Oct 2021
12:44pm, 29 Oct 2021
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SPR
Running on up on toes is a misnomer, sprinters don't do this. In fact the debate in sprinting is about whether you should land neutral or with active dorsiflexion. Regardless, heel is low on landing.

Vertical high gets a bad rep imo. You need to go vertical somewhat to go horizontal. As long as you aren't bounding along (super low cadence) it's unlikely to be something to worry about IMO.
Oct 2021
12:48pm, 29 Oct 2021
15,919 posts
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larkim
That's generous of you Gobi, but probably about right. The theory stuff interests me, and in another life I would have had a career as a research scientist rather than an accountant. I might actually prefer chatting about training to training :-)

I'm with you, Bowman, on questioning everything. Though I need to work on my approach to doing that, as it *sometimes* comes across as if I'm either trolling with a stupid idea or dismissing people who do really know stuff much better and deeper than I do. Whereas what I'm actually trying to do is learn for learning's sake.
Oct 2021
1:55pm, 29 Oct 2021
75,052 posts
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Gobi
Larks - I think you hit my frustration

Sometimes the questions just feel like trolling (not just yours)

The old Devils advocate excuse only goes so far with me.

SPR - I think we largely agree on the vertical hence i tried to an example used POSE as it is the school of 180. However 12mm at 180 is fast and bouncy ergo in my view not efficient .

So today 10.40 or so pace with the Mrs- stride length 0.9m cadence 165 avg and vertical 12%

Yesterday 8mm or so alone stride length 1.15m cadence 180avg vertical 8%
Oct 2021
2:21pm, 29 Oct 2021
15,922 posts
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larkim
It's difficult by typing to get across the sort of dialogue that you might have in person; I'm a bit more self aware of when I overstep the mark in terms of challenging stuff, but I don't always get it right! Happy to be called out on it though when I come across badly!
Oct 2021
2:46pm, 29 Oct 2021
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Gobi
I moved to a walked away model. Much better for me :-)
Oct 2021
3:08pm, 29 Oct 2021
1,916 posts
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Brunski
Larks, it can come across as though you're chatting about running when you don't have much inclination to get out there running. I genuinely thought you were after advice on how to get in shape for a 10k in 4 months time... Still think you should enter one and fully commit to those 7 hours a week 😁.

Guess part of it is maybe waiting on some running inspiration whilst filling the margins at work.

About This Thread

Maintained by Canute
Polarised training is a form of training that places emphasis on the two extremes of intensity. There is a large amount of low intensity training (comfortably below lactate threshold) and an appreciable minority of high intensity training (above LT).

Polarised training does also include some training near lactate threshold, but the amount of threshold training is modest, in contrast to the relatively high proportion of threshold running that is popular among some recreational runners.

Polarised training is not new. It has been used for many years by many elites and some recreational runners. However, it has attracted great interest in recent years for two reasons.

First, detailed reviews of the training of many elite endurance athletes confirms that they employ a polarised approach (typically 80% low intensity, 10% threshold and 10% high intensity. )

Secondly, several scientific studies have demonstrated that for well trained athletes who have reached a plateau of performance, polarised training produces greater gains in fitness and performance, than other forms of training such as threshold training on the one hand, or high volume, low intensity training on the other.

Much of the this evidence was reviewed by Stephen Seiler in a lecture delivered in Paris in 2013 .
vimeo.com

In case you cannot access that lecture by Seiler in 2013, here is a link to his more recent TED talk.

ted.com
This has less technical detail than his 2013 talk, but is nonetheless a very good introduction to the topic. It should be noted that from the historical perspective, Seiler shows a US bias.

Here is another useful video by Stephen Seiler in which he discusses the question of the optimum intensity and duration of low intensity sessions. Although the answer ‘depends on circumstances’ he proposes that a low intensity session should be long enough to reach the point where there are detectable indications of rising stress (either the beginning of upwards drift of HR or increased in perceived effort). If longer than this, there is increasing risk of damaging effects. A session shorter than this might not be enough to produce enough stress to achieve a useful training effect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GXc474Hu5U


The coach who probably deserves the greatest credit for emphasis on the value of low intensity training was Arthur Lydiard, who coached some of the great New Zealanders in the 1960's and Scandinavians in the 1970’s. One of his catch-phrases was 'train, don't strain'. However Lydiard never made it really clear what he meant by ‘quarter effort’. I have discussed Lydiard’s ideas on several occasions on my Wordpress blog. For example: canute1.wordpress.com

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