Oct 2021
6:47am, 28 Oct 2021
366 posts
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Bowman
Yes ok, well i don´t write more in the activity here besides whats uploads from Garmin. My notes i write on GC for some reason, and the activity is already here then. I rather find a metric that already is there since i got loads of data history.
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Oct 2021
7:28am, 28 Oct 2021
11,031 posts
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jda
Pipedream as there are too many variables for any controlled experiment to match your specific demands. I think at some level you just have to trust the theory and experience. There’s no controlled experiment to show me that jumping out of my second floor window will be bad for my health either but the theory is strong for that one
I’m doing too many hard sessions because zwift but intend to change that shortly.
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Oct 2021
8:19am, 28 Oct 2021
1,214 posts
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Big_G
Coming from the perspective of where running is my priority, but talking of Zwift on the bike, is there any rationale behind doing basically all easy running (except for a few races) but doing sessions on Zwift, in a bid to help reduce the chance of injury? I know to get better at running I need to run more, but I know historically it is the sessions that tend to lead me to injury. Zwifting seems to be easier on the body for me, whilst presumably still getting a decent benefit in terms of HR zones.
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Oct 2021
8:24am, 28 Oct 2021
15,901 posts
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larkim
I've got faith that the science will get more refined over time.
In terms of trusting theory and experience though, there are clearly some people who train differently and who appear to extract equivalent performances. I'm not on the lookout for some completely quack theory or approach though, more speculating that the reality might be that there are a range of training approaches that broadly turn out similar outcomes. But the absence of anyone being able to say "if you follow P&D for 18 weeks you'll be faster / slower than if you follow Hadd for the same period" niggles at me which is why I'm curious and interested in this thread.
Bottom line is I wish I was a paid researcher into running!!
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Oct 2021
9:06am, 28 Oct 2021
11,033 posts
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jda
Big_G, I doubt you’ll get any better answer than “probably better than not doing the sessions at all but not as good as running them”. There’s certainly some crossover fitness gain in general from cycling to running but I’m my case I know it’s well short of 100%.
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Oct 2021
9:18am, 28 Oct 2021
2,117 posts
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SailorSteve
Big_G I’d agree with jda and add that an approach that you enjoy and that avoids injuries, based on your previous experience, is rationale enough.
This doesn’t help the debate I’m afraid but fwiw I now only do “easy” running, zero speedwork, and the odd race, because I used to get regular calf niggles and tears. Now I stay as injury free as anyone that I know, my times aren’t bad and I love my running. I mean really love it. Maybe, almost certainly, I could be quicker, but optimising my personal, unquantifiable, “joy” factor is all the rationale that I need.
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Oct 2021
9:31am, 28 Oct 2021
1,216 posts
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Big_G
SailorSteve, yes, I know exactly where you're coming from. I am one of those who loved my running through the pandemic and even though there were no races early on, I still just loved the freedom, exploring new places near me, etc. I felt incredibly lucky to be "out there", and it dawned on me that I didn't need the races in order to still enjoy the running. I have had some time off throughout the year, but not because of running injuries (I took a nasty fall early in the year and was concussed for a while, I had a sickness bug that knocked me back a bit, and also I had Covid recently) but nothing really injury related, other than the odd niggle that I could manage. As you imply, there is a lot to be said for just getting out there and doing what we love.
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Oct 2021
9:34am, 28 Oct 2021
35,550 posts
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SPR
jda - 3 x 20 mins is what couch to 5k starts with, in run/ walks. If you're starting from nothing that's enough overload. If you're experienced, well then it's not really training.
Larkim - Why would you expect to have exact amounts of improvement for X plan? You wouldn't expect that with any other sport.
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Oct 2021
9:36am, 28 Oct 2021
75,031 posts
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Gobi
Big
As a fragile ex runner now cyclist who runs a bit I do nearly all my speedwork on the bike. It is better than nothing but no doubt it lacks the specific of carrying my fat arse around.
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Oct 2021
9:38am, 28 Oct 2021
54,657 posts
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Velociraptor
I'd love to see the outcome of larkim's aspirational paid research. "You have THESE characteristics, therefore THIS training plan will work better for you than THAT training plan," backed up by evidence, would be interesting and useful.
I've managed to race quite well at various times on a build-up that included more cycling than running, including my third-fastest marathon. Possibly not optimally, but I don't have the mental focus to stick to a training plan that's any more scientific than, "What do I fancy doing today?"
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