Nov 2016
1:13pm, 29 Nov 2016
254 posts
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Dillthedog57
For the slightly colour blind amongst us, green is the top two, yellow the next two, meaning the "rest" is the red bit at the bottom??
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Nov 2016
2:09pm, 29 Nov 2016
10,360 posts
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Chrisull
Dill - yes, red is only the last band.
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Nov 2016
3:56pm, 29 Nov 2016
2,485 posts
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Ninky Nonk
Thanks dill I'm more than a little colour blind....
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Nov 2016
4:09pm, 29 Nov 2016
2,486 posts
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Ninky Nonk
To my mind there are two main types of tempo run.
1. Jack Daniels type t pace/hmp 20mins to 35mins duration.
2. Kellogg/canova type fundamental runs at paces slower but up to mp. Duration 60mins+
I think this is saying there is more support for the second type with only small amount of 1st type required?
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Nov 2016
4:27pm, 29 Nov 2016
23,108 posts
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SPR
The yellow I was referring to is the middle line (Z2 in three zone model). I'm counting the top two lines as 'red' (Z3). I believe this is the correct interpretation, but would need to remind myself by watching the presentation again.
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Nov 2016
5:54pm, 29 Nov 2016
10,364 posts
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Chrisull
Owen Anderson in Running science refers to tempo runs being shown to be "sub optimal" in studies (not useless, but inefficient) and suggests a type 3) as a more efficient way of training the same system.
3) 10 minutes at 10k pace or slightly faster. (repeats)
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Nov 2016
6:23pm, 29 Nov 2016
2,487 posts
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Ninky Nonk
Chrisull
Sub optimal in terms of what development? Which system?
Those two types of tempo had two slightly different purposes for me.
The first to reduce amount of lactate produced. The second to increase rate of lactate processing.
Seems not much required of second. Interesting given amount of t pace work in Daniels in general.
Interestingly the marathon sEcton in magneess hints fast lt work should be done before mp work.
It suggests if you do it the other way around you'll train to burn more glycogen at faster rate with negative impact on marathon performance. Thoughts?
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Nov 2016
6:25pm, 29 Nov 2016
2,488 posts
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Ninky Nonk
Sorry wrong way round
Mp and slower to reduce amount of lactate produced. T pace / hmp to increase rate of lactate processing.
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Nov 2016
9:36pm, 29 Nov 2016
1,771 posts
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Canute
NN,
I agree that minimising lactate accumulation and enhancing capcity to remove lactate are two crucila requirements in distance running. The two types of tempo session you propose are likely to achieve those two goals.
However, to address the question of how much tempo training is needed, it is worth noting that both of these crucial requirements can be trained in other ways.
Lactate accumulation can be reduced by any strategy that increases capacity to supply oxygen and utilise it, including increasing capillaries and oxidative enzymes, both achievable at low intensities (green zones on SPR’s charts) or increasing capacity to recycle lactate from type 2 to type 1 fibres within muscle (achievable in the upper green zone, well below LT).
Ability to remove lactate from blood can be achieved by high intensity intervals (in the orange or red zones) which produce surges of lactate. It is not clear whether the mechanism for lactate clearance is best developed by surges or sustained moderate elevation of lactate, but either can achieve the goal.
Thus, the traditional arguments for tempo training are not invalid, but it is not clear that tempo training is essential to achieve these goals.
The key question is how can we achieve the greatest ratio of benefit to cost in the form of stress on the body’s weakest links. In my opinion, in the absence of any clearly identified weak link in the body, it is probably best to spread the stressful load across body systems by doing only a modest amount of the two types of tempo session you describe, together with substantial amounts of low intensity (low stress) training and small amounts of high intensity training.
In designing the optimum program for an individual athlete one also needs to consider the need for strength endurance; mental conditioning; and time available for training.
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Nov 2016
8:24am, 30 Nov 2016
10,365 posts
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Chrisull
NN - Let me dig out the book and find the exact passages (I don't necessarily agree with them, I was just noting them).
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