Pfitzinger for NON-Marathoners (Faster Road Racing)

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tipsku Apr 2023 12:46pm, 19 Apr 2023 2,876 posts	0 tipsku I'm earmarking this thread for after the marathon when I'm going to concentrate more on 5k to 10k races. I'm considering the 10k plan.
Dillthedog Apr 2023 7:46pm, 19 Apr 2023 4,744 posts	0 Dillthedog I am on the 10k plan now Tipsku, 7 weeks to go till race day. The HM plan worked well, but was a bit tough on my old legs. This time I am downgrading the midweek endurance runs to GA and GA runs to easy/recovery. But the rest I will do as per the plan
tipsku Apr 2023 9:40pm, 19 Apr 2023 2,883 posts	0 tipsku Thank for sharing your experience. I'll be following your progress for the next 7 weeks then I'm planning to do the endurance and aerobic runs to HR in Z2 ignoring pace. I'll focus on hitting the right intensities for the quality sessions. I'm really looking forward to the hill reps and short intervals because that's something I haven't done a lot so far so I hope it'll help me to develop speed.
tipsku May 2023 4:34pm, 9 May 2023 3,064 posts	0 tipsku I started the plan today, 2 weeks after the marathon. I just did the 6x 12 sec hill sprints and 6x 100 m sprints. It was fun
allmatthew Jul 2023 11:36am, 14 Jul 2023 98 posts	0 allmatthew Hello all - I'm starting the 46 to 63 mile HM plan in a week or two (in practice I might add on a few extra miles to each week but I'm not quite in the right shape or have enough time to do the 61 to 84 mile version). I've been reading about the LT intervals and have cross checked that the various tables to come up with an LT pace. There's also a LT threshold 10 miles run, with 40 mins tempo. Is the tempo pace supposed to be the same as the LT threshold pace? If so, that will be a painful 40 mins!
larkim Jul 2023 11:50am, 14 Jul 2023 21,540 posts	0 larkim My version of the book suggests the "classic tempo" (i.e. 20-40min run) should be at or 10s per mile faster than your 15k race pace. Tough, definitely, especially if the terrain you're covering isn't as runnable as a race route might be. That book does say LT intervals are at the same pace too.
allmatthew Jul 2023 12:05pm, 14 Jul 2023 99 posts	0 allmatthew Thanks larkim. My version also says at or 10s per mile fast than my 15k race pace (clearly I'd missed that obvious explanation when reading the book last night!). If I go off the last / only 10 mile race I did, then 6:30 a mile for 40 mins, whilst very tough, at least seems do-able. If I use the LT table in Appendix C based on my recent 10k time, then my LT pace would be between 6:15 and 6:25 a mile, and I wouldn't fancy having to run 10 seconds a mile faster than that. It would also almost certainly lead to a new 10km PB, and in the middle of a training run to boot!
clare1976 Jul 2023 12:10pm, 14 Jul 2023 4,778 posts	0 clare1976 Ooh this is timely, I'm shortly starting a HM plan from this book too (but mine is the 37-45 mile one which I might extend slightly but I'll also be doing gym strength work). I haven't read up on the training paces yet but I too assume tempo / LT to be the same thing. Much as I hate doing tempo runs in training, it's definitely the most effective for me when translating to HM performance so I'll suck it up.. I probably won't be that scientific about it but just run those elements to what I consider my tempo / LT effort. Which tends to be not too dissimilar to current HM race pace. I'm confident I'd struggle to run 40mins in training at faster than 10 mile race pace! That would give me a 10k PB!! I always tend to find an extra gear in target HM races compared to when trying to train at that effort...
clare1976 Jul 2023 12:11pm, 14 Jul 2023 4,779 posts	0 clare1976 Lol Matthew, we've pretty much said the same thing cross-posting re 10k PB pace in training!!
Dillthedog Jul 2023 12:12pm, 14 Jul 2023 5,078 posts	0 Dillthedog The 40 min tempo is the longest of the threshold runs. It comes after a 22 + 18 min threshold intervals. I think it is badges as a tempo because it is a single block, rather than split in two. But the pace is the same. I did all my runs by heart rate rather than pace, so the threshold was at 84 - 91 %. I found the threshold runs to be tough but doable, but the hard part was the pace of the endurance runs built up to tempo pace. So week 7 of the 48 to 63 has 40 min threshold on Wednesday, 12 mile endurance on Thursday, and 16 miles progressive on Sunday with last three at LT pace, in a total of 61 miles. That’s a really tough week, and I think I would caution against adding too many miles on top of the schedules to try to avoid injuries as much as possible. But if you get through the schedule, it really does work!