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Jul 2023
12:13pm, 14 Jul 2023
21,542 posts
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larkim
19:30 5k / 40:34 10k time are given as equivalents in the book for pacing, so that would be 6:31-6:41 pace, still pretty hot for 40 minutes in training - I'd be at or close to race effort with those paces especially if there were any inclines. Might be different on a track I suppose, but I don't have that luxury!
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Jul 2023
12:49pm, 14 Jul 2023
100 posts
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allmatthew
Thanks all - always helpful to get others' thoughts and experiences on this. I was going to rejig the plan slightly as I have club track sessions on a Tuesday and was going to use them to replace the Saturday plan workouts (which aren't as hard work on the club track sessions).
It'll be hard work - and possibly not doable - but if I can manage a Tuesday track, a Thursday LT effort, and Sunday long run with increasing pace etc, I'm sure everything will be glorious. Very much a big 'if' though.
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Oct 2023
11:43am, 2 Oct 2023
20,726 posts
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Chrisull
larks - it's no different on the track. I always hoped it would be. You're more aware of your lap times and where you are on schedule, that's all, as GPS is no use except for rough times.
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Oct 2023
12:22pm, 2 Oct 2023
22,164 posts
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larkim
I can definitely run a bit quicker on a track than on the road (c.f World Road Racing champs at the weekend where a new mile "WR" at just 3:56 was set, for example) if the weather is playing ball - though obviously it can be detrimental too if the backstraight has a nasty headwind!
You do get the luxury of precise distance / timings though, no kerbs to jump up and down or traffic to dodge, totally flat surface etc. I've certainly raced faster on a track than I think I could on a road course.
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Oct 2023
12:29pm, 2 Oct 2023
20,728 posts
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Chrisull
I'm faster on road, as I used the inclines more effectively - flat never suits me.
Maybe time to invest in the book as I'm targetting 5 and 10ks now.
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Oct 2023
12:33pm, 2 Oct 2023
22,165 posts
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larkim
I think on the road I prefer a course with some elevation changes too and do think I achieve better times vs flat road course (e.g. my HM PB is on the Conwy HM which goes up and around the Great Orme, as an extreme example), but I still think if I pace things properly a track 5k or 10k would be quicker for me as it is for elites.
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Oct 2023
12:56pm, 2 Oct 2023
111 posts
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allmatthew
Interesting that others say that non-flat races are preferable. I ran a relatively flat 10km at the weekend - 60ft elevation gain if the watch is to be believed - and I found it harder going than the one a fortnight ago which had 220ft of elevation gain (that's positively hilly for my neck of the woods). I don't know if it's the ups and downs that help me focus a bit more, but I definitely find it easier to drift and lose time on a flat course / a 10 min tempo on the track.
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Oct 2023
1:13pm, 2 Oct 2023
3,167 posts
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Welshpoppy
I have to agree I run a faster time on an undulating route than a flat one .I find it boring and harder to keep the pace I need.I much prefer the ups and down's.
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Oct 2023
1:14pm, 2 Oct 2023
22,169 posts
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larkim
I suppose I like the frequency of input on a track (i.e. the relentless lap timing which doesn't allow you to drift, especially if you do what I do and keep alert to it every half a lap) for keeping on pace. But I definitely prefer even a slight "harder / easier" profile on a road every few hundred metres; something to build for, then a bit of recovery, etc etc. Would be interested to see if there is anything "scientific" in how we could back up the benefit of a slightly rolling course. Maybe it is just the psychological "enjoyment" factor of having a few periods of higher and lower effort levels that just make the race seem to go by faster.
My flattest road race is down in Lincolnshire (Heckington 10 mile) where the biggest climb is up and over a dual carriage way road bridge, and the hardest section of that is a long 1.5 mile pan flat straight where there's no option other than to maintain consistent effort. To be fair, it is my 10m PB course, but that's more a function of timing in terms of when I've raced it.
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Oct 2023
9:28am, 16 Oct 2023
119 posts
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allmatthew
I don't want to keep banging on about how much I enjoyed yesterday's race - not something I ever thought I'd say - but I used P&D's 43 - 63 mile HM plan for the first time for this specific race. I had to tweak it slightly in order to fit in the running club track sessions and I struggled with the LT efforts. That said, it worked pretty much perfectly for me. As part of the tune up races, I managed a 10km PB, my fastest 5km time of the year, and a 2.5 min HM PB.
Think I'll be buying his marathon training book next!
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Hal Higdon / Ben Wisbey marathon plans
Sep 2020