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Jan 2022
11:22am, 14 Jan 2022
16,577 posts
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larkim
That's always my argument against those who (less often nowadays) say that you're unwise to rely on phone maps etc when our hill walking. Absolutely yes, your battery may die or become waterlogged etc. But when it works it tells you exactly where you are whether that's on a fine weather day when a map, compass and sighting points would work well or stuck in a thick cloud without any features visible.
I'd rather have a phone than a map and an compass any day.
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Jan 2022
11:28am, 14 Jan 2022
14,053 posts
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Homer
I bet we'll see these arguments shift over time. People used to say "battery, damage, lose it", but these are the same arguments for paper maps. I know lots of folk now that carry a spare GPS/Phone.
I'm pretty good at paper nav and I teach it so I like to keep my skills up to date, but I use my phone for almost everything (though I always still have a backup map or something)
I'm hoping to try a Fenix 7 but I suspect the price will stop me
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Jan 2022
11:29am, 14 Jan 2022
16,578 posts
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larkim
Agree, I do always have a paper map. I've just never actually needed to use it since I had an OS Maps sub on my phone and GPS on my watch as a backup for definitive coordinates.
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Jan 2022
1:09pm, 14 Jan 2022
14,644 posts
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Badger
Last time I pulled out a paper map it was trying to teach someone a bit of navigation, rather than for actual need. It went a bit wrong when it turned out the clip in my rucksack pocket had reversed my compass. (I knew the sea was to my left and to my West, so no getting lost was involved)
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Jan 2022
1:26pm, 14 Jan 2022
16,175 posts
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rf_fozzy
The problem following a phone or a GPS trace or whatever is (a) as you say, battery/damage etc (although I take the point about improving battery life/backup etc) and then what happens? and (b) it doesn't give you any *personal* sense of where you're going.
And it's (b) that is more important to me (and why navigation is better than blindly following). There are lots of skills in navigation that you simply lose when blindly following a phone/garmin etc - reading the ground for example.
You might not see these as important, but I think they are and I think it teaches you to be more reflective in a range of situations (transferrable skill!!).
I also notice that the vast majority of idiots who need moutain rescue because they get stuck are people totally unprepared and are "following a route on my phone - I didn't know there was a cliff there" etc.
But being an orienteer, I guess I am biased.
PS: I've never used a phone or Garmin in the hills to give me a location or route. Not needed - I can manage to use the thing between my ears.
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Jan 2022
1:34pm, 14 Jan 2022
16,580 posts
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larkim
That's one of the reasons I use the OS maps app when walking fozzy, rather than following just a breadcrumb trail on a watch or a less detailed mapping product (e.g. google maps) on a phone.
An OS map on a phone is the same as an OS map in paper with the added bonus of a live marker of where you actually are and (on my phone anyway) an accurate compass bearing too.
Though they can be equally frustrating too - when you know you are on top of a specific path marked on an OS map, but yet the path doesn't actually exist!
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Jan 2022
1:36pm, 14 Jan 2022
16,178 posts
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rf_fozzy
" with the added bonus of a live marker of where you actually are an"
So taking all the fun out navigation then? 
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Jan 2022
1:38pm, 14 Jan 2022
16,581 posts
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larkim
Sometimes when you've got reluctant kids in tow you really don't want to be sparing time to check where you are!
My wife is a geography teacher by trade and a girl guide of old; she makes sure we don't miss out on opportunities to keep our maps skills up to date!
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Jan 2022
1:43pm, 14 Jan 2022
14,645 posts
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Badger
There are lots of skills in navigation that you simply lose when blindly following a phone/garmin etc - reading the ground for example.
Wouldn't for a moment disagree, and I'm with larkim on the phone app of choice being the OS map. My watch has open street maps on it, which are very handy following a GPS track to clarify which fork of a path it actually means, but is very limited in terms of field of view and orienting yourself in the wider landscape.
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Jan 2022
1:47pm, 14 Jan 2022
16,179 posts
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rf_fozzy
I think the other thing about once you're in the hills, it's about getting away from computers, phones, technology and just 'being there'
Yes, have your Garmin on to track where you've been, and your phone in your bag in case of emergency, but not having to look at these things for 5/6/7/8/12 hours can only be a positive thing.
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