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iaincr Feb 2014 9:04pm, 22 Feb 2014 191 posts	0 iaincr "its hard to negogiate with a nationilst party whose sole aim is the break up of the UK, who have employed UKiP tatics and Hamas style government incentives." I haven't heard of anyone wanting to negotiate with the SNP/scotland, au contraire they are flat refusing to enter in any discussion pre vote. So far all I have heard is dictates coming from rRuk parties warining us of what will happen if we do not toe the line! hamas style government incentive? whilst I may not agree with the views of hamas they are a democratically elected govt, but you are right it would be like a party for the well off reducing the top rate of tax for the rich (because it is too hard to collect the tax)of course that would never happen.
surreystrider™ Feb 2014 11:28pm, 22 Feb 2014 7,879 posts	0 surreystrider™ Hmmm. Depends what 'independent' means.
daviec Feb 2014 11:33pm, 22 Feb 2014 3,782 posts	0 daviec It means North Korea. Seriously though, what country is truly independent? Every state depends on others in some way. We all know what is implied in this case. The power to make decisions about Scotland, in Scotland. And if one of those decisions is to cede some sovereignty over some issues for the benefit of the country, then that is our decision to make. That's what independent means.
JRitchie Feb 2014 12:13am, 23 Feb 2014 694 posts	0 JRitchie Do I belive that me, my family and Scotland will be better off independent? The answer is emphatically no from a social, political and economic perspective. I am a proud scot and a proud Brit. I have taken the benefits that union offers in my work in a british wide firm for the past twenty years. My relatives are made up from the rich tapestry fot this grest country. Do I vote for the party that is uk government? No but I respect the democracy in which I am a part. That includes the right of the SNP led administration to hold this referendum. The whitepaper is not a white paper by definition. It is an snp manifesto for a hoped for yes vote. They ask me to vote on a fundamental change the key aspects of which - currency and our place in the eu are being found to be false. I take heart that desite all the rubbish spouted I an not aware of any poll that has ever put the yes vote ahead. Rsspond if you want to I wont reply. I would rsther read about running.
Johnny Blaze Feb 2014 1:05am, 23 Feb 2014 20,677 posts	0 Johnny Blaze There are about 10 US states which have a land area bigger than the UK. I suppose they could choose to secede from the USA but the last time some of them tried that it didn't work out too well. I assume that the states of the US (founded 1776, when many of the western and southern states didn't even "exist") have agreed that their common heritage is strong enough to bind them together irrevocably. It's a pity that our country is so fractious that a part of it (united 1707) feels it needs to break away. As an entity the UK is older than either Germany or Italy or the US. Why are we pulling apart so?
ChrisHB Feb 2014 10:43am, 23 Feb 2014 10,123 posts	0 ChrisHB Because the south-east runs the country for the benefit of the south-east. Because central government despises local government.
ChrisHB Feb 2014 10:43am, 23 Feb 2014 10,124 posts	0 ChrisHB Because the south-east runs the country for the benefit of the south-east. Because central government despises local government.
jono Feb 2014 12:19pm, 23 Feb 2014 14,845 posts	0 jono the SNP are basically National Socialists - Salmond can't go after an ethnic group or a religious group because that is un PC and not very cool - so the specter of Westminster has been created -its Westminster's fault that your unemployed, its their fault your poor, they are denying you your true destiny. Nationalistic party's should be avoided at all costs - the difficulties being experienced by Scots are no different to anyone else in any other part of the UK. I could come up with an economic argument that says the NW of England should be independent, we have our own nuclear power, our own gas field, our own wind farms, major cities, places of learning and major manufacturing plants - do I suggest it, no because it would deny my children the benefit of access to the rest of the UK - for work, education, for a chance to mix easily with the many peoples of this island nation. what small minded thinking that is.
Jambomo Feb 2014 12:51pm, 23 Feb 2014 4,206 posts	0 Jambomo Jono, I am no supporter of the SNP myself however I think you are very incorrect in this assertion that the SNP are some kind of Scottish UKIP or as a post a few pages back seemed to imply, some kind of Scottish Nazis. Any arguments up here have been based on arguments discussing where they think we might be better in terms of Finance, education, Social Care etc etc. Whether you think they do it well or not is a different argument but don't try and say they are basing this on some kind ethnic divide or hatred of England as it is simply not true. Yes there are some arguments regarding Westminster's role in the nation, but nothing like the 'it's all their fault' arguments as you suggest. Of course it's not, the world as a whole has been under pressure and these things all take their toll on everyone but it can't be said that they act in the interests of the whole country. What you say about " the difficulties being experienced by Scots are no different to anyone else in any other part of the UK" is true - but these difficulties are things we now have an opportunity to do something about, should we let that opportunity slide because others can't?
iaincr Feb 2014 12:55pm, 23 Feb 2014 193 posts	0 iaincr jono, you are entitled to your opinion, but comparing the SNP and people who want independence to Nazis, seriously? AT the end of the day if NW of England SW of eingland want to be independent and enough peope organise, create a political party , stand for election and get a mandate to have a vote should they be denied that right? I have deleted my comments in response to your post above about 1o times as they are probably inappropriate.