Dear Scottish Fetchies
65 watchers
Feb 2014
3:04pm, 21 Feb 2014
19,680 posts
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macca53
and Donna Summer *singing* love to love you baby 
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Feb 2014
3:04pm, 21 Feb 2014
3,766 posts
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daviec
All my links have disappeared and been replaced by that youtube video. Defence: businessforscotland.co.uk PCS workers: thetarge.co.uk |
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Feb 2014
3:06pm, 21 Feb 2014
3,767 posts
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daviec
Actually, half of my post has gone.
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Feb 2014
3:08pm, 21 Feb 2014
3,768 posts
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daviec
So I was pointing out that HMRC workers do agree with me. Hence the PCS workers link. And the shipworkers opn the Clyde were happy that BAe told Westminster that in the event of independence they would have to "deal with it". eveningtimes.co.uk |
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Feb 2014
3:17pm, 21 Feb 2014
3,769 posts
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daviec
Plenty of material for the next 'debunking' blog though. I'd forgotten about some of them as it's been so long since anyone took those scares seriously. Here's food for thought though. In a poll of what people actually felt was important to them re: independence currency and the EU ranked 7th and 8th on the list of priorities with 3% and 2% of the vote accordingly. We are now, 7 months out, at the stage where these are the only scare stories that the UK government feels has legs and it means precisely nothing to most Scots. Where do they go from here. The reason Scotland gained a devolved parliament in 1999 was because the campaign against it was entirely negative, in fact the arguments were almost identical to what we're seeing now (and in turn are basically identical to the 1979 arguments!). And when things got tough for that campaign they simply got even more negative and the Yes vote strengthened. Wouldn't it be nice to hear a reason why Scotland should stay in the UK that doesn't rely on how bad it'll be for us if we don't? |
Feb 2014
3:53pm, 21 Feb 2014
187 posts
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iaincr
jono, I think the fact that one man sitting in Switzerland can effectively shut down the whole of the scottish refinery capacity underlines the fact that we need to have a governemnt in scotland that could take effective measures to protect the key services, and as much as most people seem to dislike salmond it is widely acknowledged here in scotland that we still have that refinery because of his negoitaion skills.
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Feb 2014
3:55pm, 21 Feb 2014
188 posts
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iaincr
and dave, yes I would love to start hearing some positive arguments of why we should stay in the union.
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Feb 2014
4:37pm, 21 Feb 2014
189 posts
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iaincr
daive not dave, sorry!
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Feb 2014
6:06pm, 21 Feb 2014
14,833 posts
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*jono*
with a devolved Government you have abolished tolls, introduced free University places, re organised the Police Force, re-organised the Fire Brigade, re-organised the NHS, have a separate voice for farming, you have a separate legal system, I believe devolved government would lead to more powers. bbc.co.uk as a example. Defense Scottish regiments are under recruited, it doesn't make sense to keep these undermanned Battalions going - however for the sake of the union English regiments have been axed dailyrecord.co.uk The independents put up a Disneyland style vision of a country *everything will be okay, nothing will change* - it will change and it will change because of this - I work with English,welsh and even an Irish man and their take on the independence question is - well that don't care, at all - if the Scots choose to leave then okay go - but they don't envisage an orderly exit spread over a couple of years. Their attitude is if you go everything stops the day after. The philosophers, academics, romantics who write about independence aren't there to pick up the pieces of ordinary peoples lives if it goes wrong. They don't care about the Scots living and working south of the border and what might happen to them, how their lives will change, the impact on them. But of course I Forget - everything will be fine, the day after Independence why its as nothing has happened we will all stay friends. |
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Feb 2014
6:56pm, 21 Feb 2014
3,771 posts
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daviec
OK jono. If you're going to choose to ignore what I actually say and answer what you think I said instead, that's fine. I don't believe for a second that it'll be as if nothing has happened. It's the very fat we can effect a change that there is growing support for a Yes vote. And I don't think it's an instant fix either. As I have said previously. The bonds thing you've linked is a red herring. Here have some useless powers Scotland. Now you can borrow money at a higher rate than you currently do. Aye, ok. We'll get right on that. I suggest to you that this is a precursor to the block grant being cut, aided by huge public support because of the half truth constantly spun about Scotland getting more per head than the rest of the UK. Conveniently forgetting to point out that we also raise more tax per head than the rest of the UK. So cut the money coming into Scotland, then tell us to borrow it, then point out what a large deficit we have. Brilliant strategy. Not really sure what your point is regarding the undermanned battalions. I don't dispute that. I only pointed out that we spend ~ £3 billion a year on UK defence and only get £1.5 billions worth of spending in Scotland. We can maintain current spending and keep Faslane, etc open even when Trident goes. Or we can cut back spending and still get what we get just now, or we could cut back spending and man power and have a defence force that doesn't get sent on illegal foreign wars. Given as you pointed out it seems less Scots are willing to join the forces for whatever reason (poor conditions, poor support from their government) then maybe that is the ideal situation. Most countries our size have nowhere near the size of forces that we have. What will happen if we stay is more people in poverty having their life made an abject misery with less and less chance to change it for the better johnnyvoid.wordpress.com Charging people who have no money to appeal the decision to give them no money: theguardian.com How long before they do something similar to people on disability after ATOS claim they are fit to work? Shite like these companies getting £112 million from the government but whose work then costs the UK taxpayer £500 million in appeals against their decisions, and saves virtually fuck all because over a third of those appeals are upheld. I'm well aware that this is not restricted to Scotland, but there is no way to change this broken system. The three UK parties have confirmed they are all exactly the same. Cuts, cuts, more cuts. I work in Kirkcaldy and along the esplanade there is a plaque commemorating it's construction. It was built during the great recession to provide employment and boost the economy. We could learn a lesson and maybe have a party with social values promoting that alternative. Instead we've got the red tories wanting cuts and austerity. Do you realise how long it'll take to turn around a £200 million/week deficit by cutting welfare and services? And if it ever happens, you've still to run a surplus for how many years to get rid of the mountain of debt? So whilst we in Scotland appreciate we're not the only ones, we also need to go because we are amongst the hardest hit by these things. And if we do it, and do it well then maybe it'll see a force for change, that doesn't exist strongly enough else where at present, to present opportunities for everyone else being shafted by the current set up. |
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