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Dear Scottish Fetchies

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Wriggling Snake Feb 2014 11:25am, 21 Feb 2014 6,233 posts	0 Wriggling Snake anyway, my whole point it that the problems Scotland has with the government in "Westminster" are replicated everywhere. There is disenchantment everywhere, there needs to be a fundamental change in how our democracy works and how we as people interface to it, and have interest in it. Do you realy think that this wont happen when, oops, if :-), Scotland becomes independent, of course not, do you think you will have "local" control, of course not. In effect, if Scotland votes yes, and keeps the pound or moves to the Euro, regardless of all the tosh about the VLM and the BBC, there will be some huge problems for Scotland, and Scotland won't be in control of it, Westminster will still, because the pound will be British, and Westminster will not consider an independent Scotland for once second, especially an conservative government. This would be true for the rest of Europe would, in the case of the Euro, because, as now, Scotland will be at the beck and call of all the other nations. As I said, I think I would take my chance and vote yes, but it would be with great trepidation.
daviec Feb 2014 11:34am, 21 Feb 2014 3,764 posts	0 daviec Scotland already has a government that makes decisions with no consideration of our position. Yes, there is disenchantment everywhere but certainly not to the degree felt here and we are also in a position to actually do something about it. It'll be absolute turmoil for the first few years, of that I am sure. But worth it in the long run. Whilst we may have to cede a bit of power over currency for a while, the sheer volume of other options that will be available to us for driving the economy and making decisions for our own country far outweigh that. True independence can't just happen overnight, but the first step can, and then the long journey begins.
Wriggling Snake Feb 2014 11:47am, 21 Feb 2014 6,236 posts	0 Wriggling Snake I disagree about the degree of alineation to our politics. Good luck, you will need it. basically, as the saying goes, it's the economy stupid, and Scotland is a very small fish, in a very, very very big sea. I reckon it might well work, but I would push for the Euro as soon as If I were Scotland.
jono Feb 2014 2:18pm, 21 Feb 2014 14,831 posts	0 jono I hope the 35,000 government workers north of the boarder share your optimism and the ship yard workers of the Clyde, oh and lets not hope that the owners of the only petrol refinery in Scotland gets fed up with the unions again. a LOT of people's livelihoods depend on the union. On one hand you bemoan the loss of UK military bases north of the border and yet you want Faslane Closed. Yes there is a discussion about nuclear weapons to be had and yes the very idea that we keep them so we can sit around the UN security council table is ridiculous. It seems that far from wanting to build a forward looking independent Scotland , many want to retreat into Luxembourg style existence. Britain should exist to the benefit of all its peoples, trade with the rest of the world and be a part of the EU - we are a small island nation with a strong sense of Independence and if it hadn't of being for two world wars, thats the way we would have stayed. You don't make something better by simply walking away from it and yes I do get fcking annoyed because GB is MY country. back to my sarnie*
santababy Feb 2014 2:41pm, 21 Feb 2014 70,200 posts	0 santababy i used to listen to radio Luxembourg
Wriggling Snake Feb 2014 3:00pm, 21 Feb 2014 6,244 posts	0 Wriggling Snake I used too, under the blankets with a really crackly tranny
Son of a Pronator Man Feb 2014 3:00pm, 21 Feb 2014 7,715 posts	0 Son of a Pronator Man From the CIA World factbook " The country continues to enjoy an extraordinarily high standard of living - GDP per capita ranks among the highest in the world, and is the highest in the euro zone." If that's the outcome of independence and we end up "like Luxembourg", we should be so lucky. At least we won't have to change the National anthem tune.
Son of a Pronator Man Feb 2014 3:02pm, 21 Feb 2014 7,716 posts	0 Son of a Pronator Man was it a pre-op or post op tranny under your blankets >?
daviec Feb 2014 3:02pm, 21 Feb 2014 3,765 posts	0 daviec Who's closing Faslane? There's a need for the Scottish Defence Force. Much like everything else we pay more into the UK pot for these things than gets spent in Scotland. It's entirely possible to increase defence spending in Scotland whilst reducing the actual amount we spend on defence! Bizarre as that may seem. businessforscotland.co.uk There is actually no discussion about nuclear weapons. All of the pro-indy parties have said they will remove trident from Scotland. Faslane will become a Scottish. The ship yard workers on the Clyde will be fine given that BAe's response to the UK government was that if Scotland becomes independent then the UK will just have to "deal with it". The contract remains on the Clyde. eveningtimes.co.uk The government workers do share my optimism it seems. The PCS in East Kilbride representing HMRC workers voted "overwhelmingly" to adopt a pro-indy position. http://thetarge.co.uk/article/current-affairs/0213/pcs-branch-votes-to-back-independence. It maybe seems that Scotland doesn't want a progressive outlook to you, but for me personally I've seen plenty of progressive ideas coming forward. There are lots of people with fantastic optimism bringing great ideas to the fore that simply cannot happen without independence. They may not happen with it either, but there's still the possibility and it's engaging people. I enjoyed this talk from Robin McAlpine who's vision is different from the SNP but still requires independence. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RJkQLuDkfM "You don't make something better by simply walking away from it and yes I do get f*cking annoyed because GB is MY country." Agreed. And we've stayed this long trying and all that happens is we get fucked over again and again and again. Eventually even we in Scotland will realise that playing the game by someone else's rules isn't going to help us or anyone else. If you want change within your GB then vote in a party that will not only promote that change but gain the support of the people and create a mandate for change. That's what we've done here, and unfortunately for those in England, Wales and NI who're just as shafted as us this might well be the only way to get it. If Scotland votes against independence then the Tories have already ruled out more powers for the devolved parliament, the Labour party members are refusing to go to the party conference at the thought of giving Scotland more powers, and the Lib Dems have absolutely no trust whatsoever in any part of the UK to actually deliver their promises even when they get a share of power. If we vote no, then Westminster will spin it as us being happy with the way things are, and continue with the cartel government that is appearing in front of our eyes. So we'll vote yes (IMO) and that may be the catalyst for change in the rUK. Or it may not.
Wriggling Snake Feb 2014 3:03pm, 21 Feb 2014 6,246 posts	0 Wriggling Snake That would precisely be why as I keep saying, If I were scottich I would think long and hard about voting yes, it looks all rosy, but it won't be. I re-iterate, don't tell me people in England are happy wit Westminster.