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Jul 2016
5:02pm, 25 Jul 2016
12,545 posts
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Wriggling Snake
well, you can't complain really.....can we, remember the 1980s. I think I've said on here before I must have been to a dozen test matches before I saw England win and that was against Zim.
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Jul 2016
5:06pm, 25 Jul 2016
7,936 posts
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rf_fozzy
Moeen isn't terrible, but he isn't a "good" test match spinner either.
He does tend to buy wickets and rarely gets "good" wickets from what I've seen.
I don't think Rashid is an amazing test match spinner either, but his advantage over Ali is that he does bowl "magic" balls and can bowl an opposition out.
He also does have days where he is largely ineffective, but then so does Moeen.
I guess the problem is that we've actually been spoiled a bit by having Graeme Swann who was a very good test match spinner - perhaps only one or two rungs down from the really top spinners in test history (Murali, Warne, Kumble).
I guess English cricket just doesn't have someone of the same calibre at the moment.
I just look at Ali and think that if he couldn't bat, then he wouldn't be picked.
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Jul 2016
5:21pm, 25 Jul 2016
9,554 posts
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FenlandRunner
So Root scores a total of 326 in two innings. Catches loads and now takes a wicket after two balls!
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Jul 2016
5:22pm, 25 Jul 2016
5,704 posts
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paul the builder
I'm not sure he's significantly (or any) worse than Ashley Giles though, is he? And we did OK with him.
""I just look at Ali and think that if he couldn't bat, then he wouldn't be picked.""
Almost certainly true. So it's up to a better spinner to come along and dislodge him by *clearly* contributing more - like having a decent keeper who can bat, rather than a skilled gloveman who averages 12.
Remind me which county Rashid plays for, fozzy? 
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Jul 2016
5:23pm, 25 Jul 2016
3,556 posts
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postieboy
I don't follow county cricket that closely but are there any proper out and out spinners out there who could challenge for a place?
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Jul 2016
5:27pm, 25 Jul 2016
7,937 posts
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rf_fozzy
Difference between Giles and Ali is that Giles was economical - he didn't give many freebies. And because of that he got "good" wickets - i.e. got batsmen out - Ali gets people out slogging caught on the boundary.
The reason that this is important is that it's the control factor - Ali cannot be put on at one end to hold it up whilst the seamers operate from the other end. Giles was deployed in this capacity to great effect.
Now, Rashid cannot be deployed in this capacity either. And neither can Scott Borthwick - but both of them are more likely to produce spells that bowl opposition teams out.
Rashid reminds me very much of Stuart MacGill - 200 odd test match wickets, but poorly thought of because he was in direct competition with Shane Warne.
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Jul 2016
5:33pm, 25 Jul 2016
7,938 posts
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rf_fozzy
BTW - I am NOT saying Rashid is as good as MacGill was. But I do think his wicket taking ability is similar.
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Jul 2016
5:35pm, 25 Jul 2016
7,939 posts
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rf_fozzy
Top stat time - Broad has just brought up his 10,000runs (conceded...)
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Jul 2016
5:44pm, 25 Jul 2016
12,548 posts
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Wriggling Snake
200 wickets for an English leg spinner wold be pretty handy
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Jul 2016
5:44pm, 25 Jul 2016
12,549 posts
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Wriggling Snake
YAY! A win, 1-1.
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