Ultra training for beginners

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Velociraptor Sep 2014 5:49pm, 17 Sep 2014 30,918 posts	0 Velociraptor I often wonder if those intense sessions in the taper period, and the rationale behind them, are just a sop to prevent folk who can't quite bring themselves to stop training (holds hand up sheepishly) from doing far too much in those few weeks.
Derby Tup Sep 2014 5:54pm, 17 Sep 2014 12,577 posts	0 Derby Tup Agreed
FenlandRunner Sep 2014 7:19pm, 17 Sep 2014 2,665 posts	0 FenlandRunner Depends on you age, since the Lakeland 100, I've probably learnt more about my body and what works and doesn't than the previous seven years.
HappyG(rrr) Sep 2014 7:46pm, 17 Sep 2014 22,807 posts	0 HappyG(rrr) Yes, they do, but I don't think it's physiological, more psychological. You wouldn't "stiffen up" over that time, but even if you did, just gentle jogging or gentle swim would be enough. If it has to be intense, I'd question the benefit. P&D has it in last weeks of plan too (advanced marathoning) but pretty much says it's only as a practice for race day, practice kit, practice the pace etc. Not for any training benefit.
flyingfinn Sep 2014 10:53pm, 17 Sep 2014 534 posts	0 flyingfinn Depends what you mean by 'training benefit'. Training is what you do to prepare yourself both physiologically and psychological to produce the best performance possible on race day. So if something helps an athlete prepare psychologically then it is training with a benefit. Perhaps even more so in the case of ultras where psychology plays such a big part. I don't think there is a hard and fast rule for tapering, it is very much an individual thing, and depends what you are used to. For every experienced person DT can find that advocates two weeks rest I could find you one that runs every day and races the weekend before. And looking at the results won't enable you to identify which camp they belong to and in general none of them are wrong. You have to experiment and work it out for yourself. Personally I run every day at least once even during a taper, which in reality is rarely more than week. The only race this year I tapered for longer than a week this year was the LL50, the race where I struggled to find any rhythm, felt out of sorts, produced my worst performance of the year and would generally prefer to forget about.... I'm inclined to think the additional physical rest was more than outweighed by the psychological negatives of losing my routine and the feeling of being able to push my body at will that builds up during an extended period of hard training, something that the sort of sessions el bee's coach advocates can help reinforce.
Northern Exile Sep 2014 10:38pm, 18 Sep 2014 3,452 posts	0 Northern Exile My UTMB 2014 Blog: http://www.fetcheveryone.com/blog-view.php?id=11778
Nelly Apr 2015 1:48pm, 13 Apr 2015 2,352 posts	0 Nelly I'm considering doing my first ultra at a 40-miler in November this year, so I'm wondering where to begin (other than at the start of this thread ;-), which I haven't chance to do yet). Given it's a relatively short ultra, is it just a case of marathon training with slightly longer & slower LRs? Any go-to books/references, help greatly appreciated?
Derby Tup Apr 2015 4:22pm, 13 Apr 2015 15,482 posts	0 Derby Tup To me it all depends on 1) whether you're hoping to race or or just finish it and 2) what sort of speed you normally run. If you're just happy to finish then it's basically time on feet walking and running and the more you do the easier the event will be and the quicker you'll recover. If you're a quick runner then yes, probably marathon training with knobs on. Either way you'll need to think about recovery more than in the past
Derby Tup Apr 2015 4:23pm, 13 Apr 2015 15,483 posts	0 Derby Tup Marathon with knob on looking at your race times Nelly
Nelly Apr 2015 4:38pm, 13 Apr 2015 2,353 posts	0 Nelly DT - thanks for the response. I wouldn't class myself as a "quick runner", I'm aiming for about 3:15 at Manchester this weekend, and so won't be competing with anyone for places. Most of my marathon long training runs are done at about 8:30 to 8:45mm pace, and I'd hope to complete the run in about 6hrs (so about 9mm). But that time is not really a target time more of a (hopefully) realistic starting pace.